Paleobond Tips for Shells?

[I_gotta_rock]

I have a big batch of thin, cracked, sometimes punky fossil shells I am trying to stabilize. Normally, I use watered-down Elmer's Glue, but this batch is so fragile that the wet brush was tearing them apart. I got a sample bottle of Paleobond and it worked great! It stabilized the shells and made a solid block of the wet, packed-sand matrix I wanted to leave in.  Only problem is that it sticks to more than just the intended targets. I wear gloves to keep from bonding my fingers to the fossils, but that still leaves me to glue the gloves to the fossils instead, or whatever surface I rest the fossils on to dry. The day before yesterday, I came up with the idea to make a bed of pins on some Styrofoam to rest my projects while the stuff set. Kinda works, but the drips eat the Styrofoam! What do you all do to keep from gluing your fossils to the table, tweezers, and fingers?

 

Part of the problem is that some of the shells are fragile, but barely porous the stuff runs off. I only use a little bit, but because it isn't porous, I get a shiny, wet looking shell. I suppose wet is a good look for something that was under the sea, but not always what one wants with fossil prep. Any suggestions?

[FossilDudeCO]

which paleobond are you using?

The newest one, PB100x sets fast, like seconds.

The regular PB100 dries in a couple of minutes, but blowing on it with deep, hot breaths can move it pretty along well. Moisture helps it to set.

The rest of them you can use their aerosol activator to speed the drying process. Most of their other glues take around 5-10 minutes to dry and all are about a 24 hour cure time.

 

I usually glue and set my pieces with not much running. With your shells you could apply acetone to a q-tip and wipe off excess from the shell. Be careful to avoid the break.

 

oh yeah and @Ptychodus04

[Peat Burns]

The activator @FossilDudeCO mentioned works great.  It's lightning fast.

 

Have you tried PVA yet? It can work as a consolidant and a "glue" and isn't nearly as shiny as cyanoacrylate.

[Ptychodus04]

It sounds to me like you are using too much glue. If you are using cyanoacrylate as a stabilizer (not a recommended practice) you have to use it very sparingly and apply slowly to keep it from running everywhere and gluing everything into a big mass.

 

Are the fossils still wet when you are stabilizing them? This could be adding to the problem.

 

Try this method:

 

Get some McGean B-15 (PVA), Butvar (PVB), or Paraloid (PVA) beads and some acetone. Mix the plastic beads with acetone at a ratio of 1 part plastic to 50 parts acetone by volume. Allow a specimen on matrix to fully dry and place it in a cardboard flat. Using a brush, allow drops of solution to drip from or be wicked off the brush tip onto the specimen. Repeat this until you have covered the entire specimen and matrix at least twice. Allow to dry for several hours.

 

This should provide you with a very stable specimen. If you want to remove some of the shine, you can take straight acetone and rub the surface to remove some of the plastic. 

 

DO NOT use this method on a wet fossil as the moisture will turn the solution white as it dries.

[I_gotta_rock]

Haven't used PVA yet because (1) the fumes and (2) isn't it just for porous materials? Paleobond is used for non-porous minerals, too. I don't *think* I'm using too much glue. I'm doing everything one drop at a time. The size of the drop depends on the size of the shell. I haven't quite figured out how to put the finest tips on the bottles, but when you're doing a quahog clam it's a bit too slow anyway and when you're doing a 2mm shell, even that drop is too much.

 

I have done some pieces wet before they disintegrated and some dry because I ran out, with them disintegrating on the table in the mean time. It didn't seem to change the look of the shells. The difference in what it did to the matrix is astounding! On one mold I put it on wet just to the area of the rather large mold. It ended up light gray. I left the rest alone as it was reasonably stable on the side that it was exposed in the bay. Sea life grew on it while it was in the bay and kinda stabilized it. But, I didn't want it attached to a huge chunk, so I cut (if that is the correct word in such loose sand!) the block after the bottle arrived. The block was completely dried. The back is now very, very dark! It looks weird, but I'll keep it. Rare shells in the mold.

 

BTW, won't the plastic beads also glue the shells to the work surface and/or the gloves?

[Ptychodus04]

Cyanoacrylate will turn gray/white if the piece is too wet for sure. Paleobond definitely binds with anything it touches. I have many times glued my hand to a fossil. Once, the specimen was more porous than expected and I bonded my thumb and 2 fingers to a fossil and to each other! Enter the razor blade... Not fun.

 

As for the porous/non-porus question, it sounds to me like your pieces are extremely cracked and friable on an unconsilidated sand matrix. If this is the case, PVA should work. You are correct, it will not soak into non-porus specimens but technically, Paleobond doesn't either. Both will bond the cracks to each other and the shell to the matrix.

 

If the acetone fumes bother you (I wear a respirator when using it), use denatured alcohol as your solvent. It will take longer to evaporate than the acetone so be prepared to let the pieces sit overnight.

 

The PVA shouldn't bond to the cardboard unless you really soak the specimen. The cardboard tends to wick the solution very quickly. If it does stick a bit, you can use your solvent on a q-tip to remove cardboard fibers. I have never had issues with sticking and I regularly use flats for drying consolidated specimens.

 

If you have to consolidate when wet, dilute white glue (while I hate it with a religious passion) is really your only option. Try diluting it to the point that you don't have to brush it on.

[JohnBrewer]

Why not put your fossil on something like baking or greaseproof paper then it shouldn't stick. 

[I_gotta_rock]

2 hours ago, JohnBrewer said:

Why not put your fossil on something like baking or greaseproof paper then it shouldn't stick. 

Thought about that, but was hesitant since it eats through some things. Meanwhile, this is what I've done with it so far

[I_gotta_rock]

This is a before and after shot of two sides of the same specimen. As you can see, the Paleobond made it glossy and darker. Darkness and gloss seem to depend on the shell. But, it also brought out the colors.

[JohnBrewer]

18 hours ago, I_gotta_rock said:

Thought about that, but was hesitant since it eats through some things. Meanwhile, this is what I've done with it so far

They're stunning!

[I_gotta_rock]

Thank you!

[I_gotta_rock]

On 8/15/2017 at 7:00 AM, Ptychodus04 said:

It sounds to me like you are using too much glue. If you are using cyanoacrylate as a stabilizer (not a recommended practice) you have to use it very sparingly and apply slowly to keep it from running everywhere and gluing everything into a big mass.

 

Are the fossils still wet when you are stabilizing them? This could be adding to the problem.

 

Try this method:

 

Get some McGean B-15 (PVA), Butvar (PVB), or Paraloid (PVA) beads and some acetone. Mix the plastic beads with acetone at a ratio of 1 part plastic to 50 parts acetone by volume. Allow a specimen on matrix to fully dry and place it in a cardboard flat. Using a brush, allow drops of solution to drip from or be wicked off the brush tip onto the specimen. Repeat this until you have covered the entire specimen and matrix at least twice. Allow to dry for several hours.

 

This should provide you with a very stable specimen. If you want to remove some of the shine, you can take straight acetone and rub the surface to remove some of the plastic. 

 

DO NOT use this method on a wet fossil as the moisture will turn the solution white as it dries.

Going to try a comparison, now that I'm playing around. Might try the water dilution, tho, because of the fumes. Same dilution ratio?

 

[JohnBrewer]

22 minutes ago, I_gotta_rock said:

Going to try a comparison, now that I'm playing around. Might try the water dilution, tho, because of the fumes. Same dilution ratio?

 

They're not water soluble I'm afraid 

[Ptychodus04]

@JohnBrewer is correct; PVA is not water soluble. You have to use alcohol or acetone for the solvent.

[I_gotta_rock]

Well, we'll see what I can do, then.

 

[Ptychodus04]

The water dilution I was talking about is for the white glue if you have to consolidate when wet. I would dilute to the point that it easily drips from a small brush.

 

I can't state enough how much I hate this method. I'm more of a fan of controlled drying than wet consolidation but sometimes there's no other option.

[I_gotta_rock]

Agreed! This was just one of those cases. If I had waited, I'd have had a pile of loose sand and isintegrated shells all over the table.

[Ptychodus04]

15 hours ago, I_gotta_rock said:

Agreed! This was just one of those cases. If I had waited, I'd have had a pile of loose sand and isintegrated shells all over the table.

 

That's never good. 

[AncientEarth]

On 8/16/2017 at 2:09 PM, JohnBrewer said:

Why not put your fossil on something like baking or greaseproof paper then it shouldn't stick. 

 

He's right...Sort of.

 

I will lay out a sheet of clear plastic, used Ziploc or something similar, the glue won't stick to it, you can douse your shells. I do the same on local shells from CA, and have used paleobond pretty extensively. The activator will sometimes discolor some types of matrix, test it on a scrap piece first. 

 

Paleobond sets up next to me in Tucson, we play with the glue a lot.

[JohnBrewer]

Only thing I'd add is that if using an adhesive with acetone is to make sure it won't react/dissolve the plastic so do a test first. 

 

I used backing alluminium foil earlier today with Paraloid dissolved in acetone.

[AncientEarth]

2 hours ago, JohnBrewer said:

Only thing I'd add is that if using an adhesive with acetone is to make sure it won't react/dissolve the plastic so do a test first. 

 

I used backing alluminium foil earlier today with Paraloid dissolved in acetone.

Good point, that's why I mentioned "clear" plastic, foil sounds great too. I primarily use paraloid, so that's good to know

[Ptychodus04]

4 hours ago, AncientEarth said:

The activator will sometimes discolor some types of matrix, test it on a scrap piece first. 

 

Typically, it discolors matrices that contain clays (shales, mudstones, etc). It will usually turn green. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen quickly, often taking up word of a week to discolor. So, don't test today and think it passed because tomorrow it looks good.

 

There is some good news though. If it discolors your piece, you can brush on some bleach and let it sit for a bit to remove the discoloration.

[LeNico]

On 9/3/2017 at 5:17 PM, AncientEarth said:

 

He's right...Sort of.

 

I will lay out a sheet of clear plastic, used Ziploc or something similar, the glue won't stick to it, you can douse your shells. I do the same on local shells from CA, and have used paleobond pretty extensively. The activator will sometimes discolor some types of matrix, test it on a scrap piece first. 

 

Paleobond sets up next to me in Tucson, we play with the glue a lot.

Hi there, just seeing this thread and playing with Paleobond myself on fragile shells with a microtip. I wanted to use a brush to spread the Paleobond around the shell so it wasn't too thick / drippy, the container isn't big enough to dip in, but the brush ends up being a clump of glue after a few seconds. Qtip isn't much better. Any success with a tool to spread the glue around a shell to prevent using too much glue by soaking it via the microtip?

[I_gotta_rock]

19 hours ago, LeNico said:

Hi there, just seeing this thread and playing with Paleobond myself on fragile shells with a microtip. I wanted to use a brush to spread the Paleobond around the shell so it wasn't too thick / drippy, the container isn't big enough to dip in, but the brush ends up being a clump of glue after a few seconds. Qtip isn't much better. Any success with a tool to spread the glue around a shell to prevent using too much glue by soaking it via the microtip?

Usually I find that just one tiny drop at a time with the micro tip is the best route unlesthe fossil in question is really big. If that isn't what you need, try using something that won't absorb as much, like a bamboo skewer to spread things around, or a dental pick from which you can often break the glue off, to spread the pools around on the specimen and keep moving the specimen around so that gravity helps spread the liquid through capillary action. Or, switch to paranoid, which is easily dissolved from the brush and sets more slowly. I've had success with both methods since I started this thread. Shells are pretty easy to dry put most of the time because they aren't very thick or absorbent, so paranoid seems to be a good choice for some of my shells.

[I_gotta_rock]

@LeNico, I was just on Paleocon'd web site to restock and they suggest using cardboard to push the liquid around on shark teeth. Might want to try it.