Please ID possible crinoid calyx impression

[jewelonly]

A friend of mine found these fossil impressions while digging the foundation of his house near Huntsville, AL. This is Mississippian, Bangor Limestone Formation. In trying to identify the species, he thought it might be megistocrinus sp. He would like a definitive ID, if possible, so I appreciate all help. 

Thank you,  

Leah

[FossilDAWG]

@Archimedes

 

Don C

[abyssunder]

I'll go with cystoid calyx imprints on this, rather than crinoid calyx imprint. Take a look here:

 

[jewelonly]

1 hour ago, abyssunder said:

I'll go with cystoid calyx imprints on this, rather than crinoid calyx imprint. Take a look here:

 

@abyssunder, thank you so much! Both the Oklahomacystis tribrachiatus and the Oklahomacystis trigonis look like they could be matches. However, these are both Upper Ordovician. Does anyone know if these or like species have been documented in the Mississippian of the Bangor Limestone? My search field is limited to Google. 

Thank you,  

Leah

[Herb]

echinoderm plates are 5-6  sided, these do not appear to have that symmetry. Looks bark  lite

[doushantuo]

I can heartly recommend the following:

[doushantuo]

Frest & Strimple:

[doushantuo]

I think you have a trangressively reworked specimen

[ynot]

2 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

a trangressively reworked specimen

Can You state that in layman terms?

[doushantuo]

Marine transgressions rework ("erode &/or transport")previously deposited strata(and their fossils).Reworking is not unknown in the Appalachian Basin.

 

[ynot]

2 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

Marine transgressions rework ("erode &/or transport")previously deposited strata(and their fossils).Reworking is not unknown in the Appalachian Basin.

 

AH, Thank You great sage! (Guess My brain is not functioning today.)

[doushantuo]

Know the feeling

I found an old  thesis on the Bangor Limestone(Dinnean) ,but it's unpostable,and the stratigraphy might be pretty outdated

[abyssunder]

From the Bangor limestone of Alabama the following crinoid genera have been reported: Onychocrinus, Culmicrinus, Phalcelocrinus, Aphelecrinus, Phanocrinus.

[doushantuo]

by Moore & Jeffords?

in,what was it ,1968?

Webster,2006?

spill the beans

[jewelonly]

Thank you so very much, @doushantuo for all the resources and thoughts on the topic. I appreciate your help!  

Leah

 

@abyssunder, thank you for the Bangor Limestone species information and for pointing me toward the link exploring the cystoid possibility, which I have never encountered before.   

 

I'm sure I'll have many questions after I study the materials you have provided. Thanks again!!  

 

Leah

 

[doushantuo]

I

[piranha]

Crinus has collected 33 crinoid species from the Bangor Formation:  LINK

 

Acrocrinus shumardi

Aenigmocrinus anomalus

Alcimocrinus ornatus

Anartiocrinus maxvillensis

Anartiocrinus sp.

Aphelecrinus bayensis

Aphelecrinus mundus

Aphelecrinus oweni

Camptocrinus multicirrus

Camptocrinus sp.

Cymbiocrinus grandis

Cymbiocrinus lyoni

Cymbiocrinus tumidus

Dasciocrinus spinosus

Eupachycrinus sp.

Harmostocrinus sp.

Hytranecrinus diabolus

Lanecrinus sp.

Pentaramicrinus inflatoramus

Pentaramicrinus sp.

Pterotocrinus depressus

Phacelocrinus longidactylus

Phanocrinus bellulus

Phanocrinus cylindricus

Oklahomacrinus sp.

Onychocrinus pulaskiensis

Onychocrinus sp.

Orthonychia chesterense

Rhopocrinus cornelli

Taxocrinus whitfieldi

Tholocrinus ornatus 

Zeacrinites sp.

Zeacrinites wortheni

[jewelonly]

Thank you, @piranha for this informative link.  

36 minutes ago, piranha said:

Crinus has collected 33 crinoid species from the Bangor Formation:  LINK

 

Acrocrinus shumardi

Aenigmocrinus anomalus

Alcimocrinus ornatus

Anartiocrinus maxvillensis

Anartiocrinus sp.

Aphelecrinus bayensis

Aphelecrinus mundus

Aphelecrinus oweni

Camptocrinus multicirrus

Camptocrinus sp.

Cymbiocrinus grandis

Cymbiocrinus lyoni

Cymbiocrinus tumidus

Dasciocrinus spinosus

Eupachycrinus sp.

Harmostocrinus sp.

Hytranecrinus diabolus

Lanecrinus sp.

Pentaramicrinus inflatoramus

Pentaramicrinus sp.

Pterotocrinus depressus

Phacelocrinus longidactylus

Phanocrinus bellulus

Phanocrinus cylindricus

Oklahomacrinus sp.

Onychocrinus pulaskiensis

Onychocrinus sp.

Orthonychia chesterense

Rhopocrinus cornelli

Taxocrinus whitfieldi

Tholocrinus ornatus 

Zeacrinites sp.

Zeacrinites wortheni

 

[jewelonly]

First, it is evident from reexamination that I misread the description accompanying the cystoid reference in the earlier thread that @abyssunder linked for me. In the earlier topic, he posted a plate and description of Oklahomacystis tribrachiatus and a description

that is also referenced in Sprinkle's, Echiniderm Faunas from the Bromide Formation (Middle Ordovician) of Oklahoma, (different species name?) which @doushantuo listed as a complete reference in this thread. The cystoid species pictured and described appears to me to be a very close representation of the fossil in question.

 

Secondly, since this is not a crinoid, I am curious to know if cystoids similar to the described species have been found in the Bangor Limestone. I apologize for not making myself clear earlier, but I was obviously asking for the wrong information. While crinoids are plentiful in the Bangor Limestone, I am not aware of nor can I find any examples of cystoid species.

 

Perhaps it is an example of what Tony referenced as transgressively reworked, or  eroding and deposition from an Ordovician environment to the Mississippian Bangor Limestone. 

 

Again, I apologize for the confusion and appreciate everyone's contributions.  

 

Thank you,

 

Leah

 

[piranha]

Oklahomacystis is a paracrinoid.  Paracrinoids are only found in the Middle to Upper Ordovician.

 

 

 

 

[crinus]

Can't be a cystoid or paracrinoid.  They were extinct by then.  I would pursue a non echinoderm ID.  I don't think it is echinoderm.  I have collected the Bangor and Monteagle (more likely since you said Huntsville) Formations and have never seen anything like it but then I was concentrating on echinoderms.  

Joe

 

[Al Dente]

Here's a reverse image of the first picture. I would guess some type of echinoderm but no idea what.

[jewelonly]

50 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Here's a reverse image of the first picture. I would guess some type of echinoderm but no idea what.

Thank you very much, @Al Dente for this reverse image!  

 

Leah

[crinus]

That reverse image makes it look like the calyx of a Physetocrinus.   Was this taken out of rock that was in place or was it loose like in glacial till?  Could it have been moved to the spot? Never heard of a Physetocrinus from Huntsville.

 

This is a plate out of a book. Figure 5 and 6 are the Physetocrinus.

 

 

 

[jewelonly]

1 hour ago, crinus said:

That reverse image makes it look like the calyx of a Physetocrinus.   Was this taken out of rock that was in place or was it loose like in glacial till?  Could it have been moved to the spot? Never heard of a Physetocrinus from Huntsville.

 

This is a plate out of a book. Figure 5 and 6 are the Physetocrinus.

 

 

 

 

Hi Joe,

That does look like a close match. Three separate imprints of this fossil species were found while digging the foundation of the house. The rock was in place and not fill. The actual location is within the city of Madison. Is that Monteagle rather than Bangor?

 

Thank you,

Leah