Fish or Invertebrate bit in an old French burrow

[GeschWhat]

I picked this up a while back. It was part of an old collection and identified as a coprolithe (aka coprolite). After rinsing it off and looking at it under the microscope, I'm thinking it is some sort of burrow. It contains what looks like invertebrate fecal pellets and fishy bits. I am trying to figure out what this little inclusion is. I was thinking it is a bit of fish skull or possibly a crustacean bit. Anyone recognize it?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[doushantuo]

Gault Clay,Haute Marne,if I read that correctly?

So Albian,prolly

Breton(who knows the Albian of France sideways and back to front) lists as Gault ichnites:

Chondrites,Tomaculopsis,Thoronetia,(the microscopical)Arachnostega,and "terriers cylindriques"(so basically indeterminable burrows)

Note of caution: from a more phosphatic facies

[GeschWhat]

3 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

Gault Clay,Haute Marne,if I read that correctly?

Is that what it says? @fifbrindacier said Eclaron is a village. She thought Gault might be a district of that village. Other than that, I have no idea. 

[doushantuo]

Gault is an old term.Don't quote me on this,but it could be considered both a facies AND a lithology(glauconitic arenite?).

With ,as some people believe ,perhaps some chronostratigraphical  meaning as well

The Cretaceous subdivison Albian refers to Aube(in a latinized way)

Both d'Orbigny and Sauvage collected there in the 1840's and 1850's.

Would be awesome if the note is from either one of them

Nineteenth century Gault literature IS around in reasonable proportions

from the most recent gault study:

Note the "glauconie abondante" in the lithological logs

 

[doushantuo]

when i posted the above,i had not yet come across a slightly older Amedro(Carnets de Geol,2014) piece,from which i freely quote

 

Abstract: The Albian Stage in its type area, the Aube (France): a synthesis in a global sedimentary context.- The Aube department is the type locality of the Albian stage created by d'ORBIGNY (1842).* Two formations are recognised in the clay facies (the "Gault" auct.) of the stratotype, the Argiles tégulines de Courcelles (82 m), which is overlain by the Marnes de Brienne (43 m). The boundary between the two formations is defined at the top of an indurated bed (hardground L'Étape) that is readily identifiable, both in the field, and from boreholes. The type area of the Albian stage is of great interest because of the size of the clay facies (more than 120 m) unique in the Anglo-Paris basin.

*i couldn't find my Harland,which has the explanation for all stratotypes,period

[doushantuo]

Sauvage *would pick something up with fish affinities.Parts of Anomoeodus pauciseriale?(sagittal flanges)

*yes,i know,but don't you just love some farfetched assumptions?

hoploparian or Glypheid parts?

I so shouldn't do ID'S

[doushantuo]

the societal relevance of Cretaceous clays and their extent,subsurface or otherwise

[Coco]

Hi,

 

"Argiles de Gault" is a stratigraphical indicating term than Albian level. It exists in Haute-Marne as in Normandy on the Channel coast.

 

Eclaron seems to be a municipality of the Haute-Marne called really Eclaron-Braucourt-Sainte-Livière (F52290).

 

Coco

[elcoincoin]

Hello there,

 

A recent book about this area is "stratotype albien" :http://sciencepress.mnhn.fr/fr/collections/patrimoine-geologique/stratotype-albien

About the locality, my guess is that back in the days, there was 3 different villages that has been merged recently for being too small.

 

 i made a search on google map so its most likely the banks of "lac du Der", a man made reservoir : here .This has been done in order to prevent floods in Paris.

The book is more about the other reservoirs not far from there and in the area of the stratotype (courcelles) but it looks like about the same stuff : nodule from the Gault

 

The pictured specimens are more from the other reservoirs of the area (lacs de la foret d'orient).

 

i posted recently here my albian stuff cases from the other reservoirs too. So you can figure fossils from the area.

 

 

[GeschWhat]

Thank you all!  Knowing the age/formation and history of the area is really helpful.

 

11 hours ago, doushantuo said:

Both d'Orbigny and Sauvage collected there in the 1840's and 1850's.

I was not at all familiar with these two gentlemen. I was able to find a little on Alcide d'Orbigny with a google search, but nothing much comes up when I search for "Sauvage" (other than perfume)  What was his first name? Unfortunately, I don't know french. So researching old or even modern texts is rather difficult for me in the language. Like you, I love to speculate about who could have written the label or handled the specimen. The label was fun to peek at the label under the microscope. The inks used back then are so different than those used now. 

 

I love the old logs you posted. I wonder if they were hand colored. I have a 2nd edition of William Buckland's Geology and Mineralogy Considered with Reference to Natural Theology from 1837. It has a large fold out illustration showing the various geologic layers that is completely hand colored. I LOVE the old texts. The smell of the oil-based ink and references to those on the cutting edge of science back then, can transport you back in time. I especially love when when they refer to things "recently" discovered by Darwin and others.

 

 

[fifbrindacier]

I didn't know the existence of the "Argiles de Gault", all i knew since is that Gault is a name, of person or of location. What i know is that it is a part of the name of one of our most famous culinar guide "Gault &Millau".

In latin, "Alba" means white.

Litterally "Sauvage" means wild.

I'll try to find out writings of d'Orbigny and Sauvage, i'll tell you if i find something and then we'll compare it with yours. I agree with @doushantuo (who is a fount of science), it would be so awesome if you had a note from one of them, specially from Alcide Dessalines d'Orbigny!

[GeschWhat]

12 hours ago, doushantuo said:

Sauvage *would pick something up with fish affinities.Parts of Anomoeodus pauciseriale?(sagittal flanges)

*yes,i know,but don't you just love some farfetched assumptions?

hoploparian or Glypheid parts?

I so shouldn't do ID'S

So...fish or crustacean then? I wish I would have photographed it before I rinsed it. It had a lot of powdery residue on it. So I'm not sure if Sauvage would have been able to see the bits in question. Although, there was a tiny fish vertebrae (before I damaged it) that might have been visible. Surely either d'Orbigny and Sauvage would have picked it up since the collector thought it was a coprolite.  Fossil poop can contain almost anything!

[fifbrindacier]

Here are some documents that could contain Mister d'Orbigny's writing :

 

[GeschWhat]

@fifbrindacier you knew more than me. It is so hard to decipher old text! Thanks for your help.

[Coco]

Hi,

 

I think he was Henri Emile SAUVAGE : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Émile_Sauvage

 

Coco

 

 

[abyssunder]

Lori, could you please post a clearer image with the specimen in question?

[GeschWhat]

1 hour ago, abyssunder said:

Lori, could you please post a clearer image with the specimen in question?

The whole piece or the microscopic image?

Thanks, Coco!

[abyssunder]

the microscopic image...
Thank you.

[doushantuo]

A typical Sauvage plate with fish bits( from his (Nom.transl.)" Catalogue of the fossil fish of the Secondary age* of the Boulonnais":

Primary=Paleozoic

Secondary=Mesozoic

Tertiary=make a wild guess

I don't know if you've heard of the rudist Sauvagesia ?

[GeschWhat]

I don't know if these are much better, but I tried to capture different angles.