fossilized6s Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I drove about 4hrs west to find trilobites, came home with cephs. I did happen to find some pretty neat trilobites, but they need prepping, so i won't post them. Hunting more for trilobites this year i come across a lot of other fossils and i find it exceedingly hard to leave a neat looking cephalopod behind, so i grab em. Most of these will be left outside, but some are nice enough for display. Here are some nice ones. I love the contrast and size on this piece. The isotelus cephalon and worm burrows don't hurt either. Continued.... ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossisle Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 those are super cool!! Cephalopods rule!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 And this is one of my favorite pieces I've found in a long time. Basically because it says so much. I love fossils that tell a story. BUT here are a few thought provoking questions to everyone. This Cephalopod is covered in a bryozoan, then there are dozens of crinoid holdfasts over the top of that. Would this suggest this Cephalopod shell and bryozoan fossilized first, then the crinoids moved in? Or is there evidence of Cephalopods swimming around with creatures on their shells, like a whale housing barnacles? This is also filled with calcite crystals. What are your thoughts on this piece? Calcite filled crystals Bryozoans and crinoid holdfasts ranging from tiny to large. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 Also the crinoid holdfasts are surrounding this Cephalopod shell. So that would suggest it was sticking straight up on the ocean floor or literally swam around with crinoids living on it.......right?! ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Hi there! I can't answer your questions, but I just wanted to say that I, too, seem to be unable to leave cephalopods behind when I go hunting in my local area - even when they look not-so-nice, I'll bring them home - I just can't resist!!! I hope you get some answers to your questions - thanks for sharing! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Hi, I do not think that this is evidence for Crinoid settlement on living Cephalopods, and I do not think the Ceph shell was standing with top upwards on the seafloor too. Just imagine that the dead Ceph shell lay mostly free on the seafloor for a longer time. Crinoid(and Bryozoan) larval settle on the free current exposed part of the Cephalopod. After a longer time the Crinoids, on this first settled side/top of the Cephalopod, grow too big for its Cephalopodbasement and all will be turned by the current. Then the game starts again. The same is with the bryozoan. When you look carefully in field(if you found this in a layer) you should be able to determine the direction the paläocurrent came from. Normally there are bigger holdfasts on one "side" and smaller holdfasts on the other "side". Sometimes(but not always) are the bigger ones the second settlement because the existing first generation stabilize the basement when turned. But keep in mind that this is just one possibility of much more ways that could lead to this result that can be seen on your Ceph. It only can be said with certainty that there was a paläocurrent and a reduced sedimentation that allowed Crinoid settlement. kind regards Andreas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Thanks, Andreas. I thought about that scenario too. But all of the holdfasts are on top of the bryozoan. Your theory still makes sense if the bryozoan was already tightly secured to the shell. So you don't believe cephalopods swam around with extra critters living on them? I know a lot of creatures of our oceans do coexist now. I wonder if it's just out of the realm of possibility. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 3 hours ago, fossilized6s said: So you don't believe cephalopods swam around with extra critters living on them? I know a lot of creatures of our oceans do coexist now. I wonder if it's just out of the realm of possibility. Hi, I only believe that the settlement was postmortal on the Ceph you showed above. But this is just my personal opinion and doesn't mean that this is prooven fact. There exist many evidenced examples of real epibionts. link You can do further research on that in the net too and compare your specimen. I also would recommend you to go back to the location where you found this Ceph an have a closer look to the sediment deposition of the layer.(look for hardgrounds, current markers, if other shells show settlement etc.) In my strata that normally helps to solve such questions. kind regards Andreas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 the best piece to answer some of the questions raised would be: Baird, G C, Brett, C E & Frey, R C, 1989. "Hitchhiking" epizoans on orthoconic cephalopods: preliminary review of the evidence and its implications. Senckenbergiana lethaea, 69(5/6): 439-465. EDIT:see below!!Obviously,I found it However,I couldn't post it directly So ,this subject has come up earlier in the history of this forum!!! or: wyse jackson(JOP,2014): Epizoozoan trepostome bryozoans on nautiloids from the Upper Ordovician (Katian) of the Cincinnati Arch region, U.S.A.: An assessment of growth, form, and water flow dynamics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Wonderful! Thank you both very much. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 wait,I'm not done yet The first article you will certainly NOT find on the internet,except maybe on some filesharing sites with dodgy/disreputable intent. However,all is not lost. Will be back. I posted at least one very good article(I know it was) on cephalopod taphonomy,a while back E:bryozoan/coral encrusted orthocone(CzechBull.geosc.,2014) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 vertical embedment: reymentverticephalotaphomain.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Gabbott(1999,Palaeontology) Orthocone taphonomy in the Ordovician Soom Shale of South Africa. Whether this can be extrapolated to other Paleozoic situations/lithologies/occurrences remains to be seen,I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Baird, G C, Brett, C E & Frey, R C, 1989. "Hitchhiking" epizoans on orthoconic cephalopods: preliminary review of the evidence and its implications. Senckenbergiana lethaea, 69(5/6): 439-465. edit: so obviously,thanks to at least Piranha(possibly to more members),this resource was here on this forum all along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Thank you very much, @doushantuo Great reads. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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