Arizona Chris Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Hi all, As we go throgh hundreds of pounds of limestone for our current project, the acid bath fines are revealing some strange silicified remains. This one is an enigma for us! We have found half a dozen so far, and have no idea what they might be. However, we have some clues. First, there is no crinoid material from this deposit, so not likely a part of a calyx. Second, there is tons of urchin remains and so I suspect this might be a part of an urchin. Maybe a mount part? The pie wedge shaped pieces have straight sides and a perplexing hole in each one. All are very small, the mm scale is at the bottom. Anyone have some thoughts on what they may be? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arizona Chris Paleo Web Site: http://schursastrophotography.com/fossiladventures.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I think You are correct with echnoid mouth parts. @Coco should be able to confirm this. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 These are echinoid, parts of the Aristotle's lantern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Hi, I am not sure ! Permian is to old for me, and these small parts aren't clear, they seem mineralized. To my knowledge, the parts of Aristotle's lantern don't show a hole in their middle, it is their assembly which presents holes. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 The species of echinoid (as IDed from spines and isolated plates) from the Fort Apache Member is Echinocrinus trudifer or Archaeocidaris trudifer White. If anyone can find info/ photo of that species mouthparts, that would be great. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Some of them look like g------ plates. An urchin will have 5 of them around the periproct. I find cidaroid g------ plates frequently in Eocene material that I pick through here in NC. edit: Tried to say g------ plates but g------ got edited out. edit again: g-e-n-i-t-a-l plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Echinocrinus might be a suppressed name A.trudifer would have to be a post 1958 named taxon?(It's NOT in Kier's Paleozoic echinoids) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Chris Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 In Winters Paper from 1963, E. trudifer (White) is what he lists as the echinoid found in the Ft. Apache. This is based on spines alone, and not other parts which were very uncommon. We have also found many spine base plates so It is not impossible to say the plates would be a ring around the mouth or periproct. The holes could be for canals for the water vascular system or maybe nerves. After this many years that name could certainly be obsolete! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arizona Chris Paleo Web Site: http://schursastrophotography.com/fossiladventures.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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