Tooth id

[fgiarro]

Hi- I've bought some time ago this mammal tooth (I've attached three pics) from a Chinese seller, who didn't know anything about it (only its Chinese origin)- I think it comes from a carnivorous species, but I'm not expert at all in that field- Maybe anyone can help me to ID the tooth with some more information- Thanks in advance, Fabio

[Shellseeker]

Hi Fabio,

Welcome to TFF, a lot of friendly experts and fossil enthusiasts here. Your tooth is a carnassial, a tooth predators use to shear chunks of meat off of bone. Usually we are thinking about members of the canid and feline families of animals.

You need to provide measurements along the length of the biting surface, width and length of the rest of the tooth. Size will be a big differentiator. A modern tiger will usually have a smaller carnassial than Smilodon, a sabertooth cat.

For comparison, A Dire Wolf Carnassial.

 

[fgiarro]

Hello Shellseeker, many thank for reply- You are right, I forgot to provide the size of the tooth: it's roughly 36mm x 25mm ( lenght x height of the enamel)- Thanks again, Fabio

 

[Shellseeker]

1) See this link, http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/41295-time-to-drool/&page=2

2) 1 EXPERT verified the above Smilodon tooth at 40.64 mm and another validated that a sample of 10 Puma atrox upper carnassials from La Brea measured from 35mm to 45mm,

3) In this thread, @PrehistoricFlorida shows a panther tooth that , to me, seems very similar to yours. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/70677-ice-age-tooth/

4).  Once again a thread that shows a carnassial very similar to yours and assigns it to the Puma family  -- would include lions. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/256430786_fig2_Fig-2-Left-upper-carnassial-of-Puma-pardoides-IGF-15358-from-Montopoli-Italy-A1-2

 

So a carnassial in lion range of size (36 mm) from China. That is about as far as I can go.  Hopefully , @Harry Pristis or Nate will be interested.  

 

 

[fgiarro]

Thanks a lot Shellseeker, Fabio

[Shellseeker]

3 hours ago, fgiarro said:

Thanks a lot Shellseeker, Fabio

Fabio,

I am doing a significant amount of guessing and I would be most pleased if a TFF expert would chime in on my speculations.

I believe you have a right side upper P4 of a large cat.

Below is a picture of a modern lion. The flat area on the right of your first photo is a difference that is significant and I have not found a matching photo. Here is a quote that indicates the length of your tooth (36mm) is in the range of a modern lion. http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-do-lions-have-bigger-mandibles-than-other-bigcats.

Quote

Males and Females are statistically distinct across each of the linear variables (I-XVII), as we hypothesized (H2); males are substantially larger than females in all linear measures (Table 4). However, the sexes do not differ by either of the shape ratios. Those ratios clearly separate lions from tigers as lions have significantly longer rostra and narrower biangular widths – thus supporting H1 as well. Although the upper carnassial (P4) and premolar-molar rows in lions are only slightly longer than those of tigers (35.57 mm vs. 33.79 mm and 68.25 vs. 63.12 respectively), these differences were also highly significant.

Quote

 

[PrehistoricFlorida]

Not enough information is given to accurately identify this tooth. Any attempt to positively identify it based on these pictures and the information given is pure conjecture. We don't know what age the tooth is, which in carnivorans is crucial to positive identification. With all that said - this tooth reminds me more of a canid (possibly deciduous, or Miocene or earlier) than it does of a felid.