MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 The two specimens below are from the Eocene of Virginia. I’ve collected this site for many years and not found anything similar. They look like they are pieces of an echinoid. I’ve never found an echinoid, echinoid spines or pieces of echinoids from this site or any other site in Virginia before. EDIT: I should have put this information in the original post. These specimens are from a marine formation. They are very thin, almost paper thin. Yet they are hard and not flexible. Specimen 1 6mm x 5mm Specimen 2 5mm x 2mm Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Osteoderms from baby crocodiles(?). Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I don't believe it's reptilian. They have scales. I think they look a little like some echinoderms or sea urchins, but the pattern doesn't match any I've seen. See the examples below and you can see the similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi, I am not sure it is a part of a sea urchin. On the second fossil there is a lot of tubercles but no ambulacra zona. Coco 1 ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Interesting piece. Doesn't look like echinoid but I can't offer any good alternative.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, KimTexan said: I don't believe it's reptilian. They have scales. Crocodile and alligators have bony plates called osteoderms, not scales like lizards or snakes. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I'm confident it is not from an echinoderm. Might be crustacean. Looks a little like crab shell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I was thinking fish tooth..... “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Very cool! What does the side look like? Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: Very cool! What does the side look like? Lori Paper thin. So thin that I'm afraid I would damage them if I put them in clay or even loose sand to take a side picture. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 39 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: I was thinking fish tooth..... They are extremely thin with distinct holes running through the center of each cell so I don't think they are a fish tooth plate. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Al Dente said: I'm confident it is not from an echinoderm. Might be crustacean. Looks a little like crab shell. Eric At least I know now they are not echinoids. All of the echinoids that I have from NC are complete. I should have kept some pieces so I could see what they looked like on the inside. I had originally thought some kind of crustacean shell. However each cell on the pieces has a through hole in the center. I've never seen crab shell like that before. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 This probably sounds crazy, but the tiny holes in each bump make me think of hair follicles, as in skin... like a bird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, westcoast said: Interesting piece. Doesn't look like echinoid but I can't offer any good alternative.. Really didn't look like an echinoid to me either but I just couldn't come up with something else. Marco Sr. 5 hours ago, Coco said: Hi, I am not sure it is a part of a sea urchin. On the second fossil there is a lot of tubercles but no ambulacra zona. Coco Coco I really was very unsure of echinoid but just couldn't come up with another id. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 6 hours ago, KimTexan said: they look a little like some echinoderms or sea urchins, but the pattern doesn't match any I've seen. See the examples below and you can see the similarities. The pattern doesn't match anything I've seen either. Marco Sr. 8 hours ago, ynot said: Osteoderms from baby crocodiles(?). Tony These are paper thin. They also have a single through hole in the center of each cell. My Osteoderms don't have those single holes. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, old bones said: This probably sounds crazy, but the tiny holes in each bump make me think of hair follicles, as in skin... like a bird... Julianna I've never seen fossilized skin before. The specimens are paper thin. It was the holes that made me think that they might be pieces of an echinoid shell because something was probably sticking out through them. At first I thought that they might be some kind of plant contaminant but they are not flexible and much more like shell than plant material. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Bryozoan? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Detached encrusting sponge? (It could have been on something soft.) 2 Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 52 minutes ago, TqB said: Detached encrusting sponge? (It could have been on something soft.) or it was phosphatized before the shell substrate was dissolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 might be Crustacean exocuticle?(Epicuticle gone,of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 hours ago, TqB said: Detached encrusting sponge? (It could have been on something soft.) 2 hours ago, Plax said: or it was phosphatized before the shell substrate was dissolved? Sponge would explain the through holes in both specimens. The sponge internal diagrams on-line also seem to make sponge a real possibility. I really wish I could find actual pictures of a fossil sponge that show the honeycomb pattern with the through holes like these specimens. I will keep looking on-line. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 11 hours ago, ynot said: Crocodile and alligators have bony plates called osteoderms, not scales like lizards or snakes. Osteoderm is the correct technical term, but they are still scale like in nature. I put the general definition of scales and osteoderms below. The angle I was coming from was that the picture did not appear to be plate or scale like in nature. Osteoderms tend to have raised bony plates that are whereas the center of these appear to be recessed. Of course if it were a cast it could be inverted. I don't know if it's an echinoderm, it's just the closest thing I know of off hand that has somewhat similar features. Scale: One of the many small hard dermal or epidermal structures that characteristically form the external covering of fishes and reptiles and certain mammals, such as pangolins. Osteoderm: bony deposits forming scales, plates or other structures based in the dermis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 hours ago, doushantuo said: might be Crustacean exocuticle?(Epicuticle gone,of course) I found on-line that the integument of decapod crustaceans consists of an outer epicuticle, an exocuticle, an endocuticle and an inner membranous layer underlain by the hypodermis. These outer three layers of the cuticle are calcified. I am not used to seeing separately these individual layers as I’m used to seeing the top epicuticle layer only. I’ve found a few diagrams of the exocuticle layer on-line that really weren’t detailed enough to make a positive id of my specimens but were interesting enough for me to continue to look on-line for more detailed diagrams. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 hours ago, ynot said: Bryozoan? Tony I don't have any bryozoan fossils in my collection so I don't have actual specimens to look at. From what I could see on-line that might be another possibility. However, I really can't tell for sure from the pictures I'm seeing on-line. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, KimTexan said: I don't know if it's an echinoderm, it's just the closest thing I know of off hand that has somewhat similar features. I have very few invertebrates in my collection so I don't have much to compare these specimens to and am not familiar at all with invertebrates. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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