garyc Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 This one has me stumped. I'm not sure if it's a pleistocene aged tooth from something like beaver or a rodent; or maybe even something marine like a coral. The "tubes" seem to run the entire length of it. I haven't even ruled out man made. It measures 1.5 inches x 3/8in. x 5/8in. I welcome all opinions. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Where was this found? I am thinking plant. Something like a palm or fern - that has a fibrous wood. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 This may seem like an odd question, but, what color is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 My first impression was a hexactinellid sponge root mass, loosely called Hyalostelia though that's also a proper genus. Often found in the Palaeozoic but can be more recent. Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Am I ever glad I gave up trying to identify sponges now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 I found it on the Brazos River, SE Texas. Mostly pleistocene/holocene w/ the seldom found miocene and eocene exposures about a hundred miles to the north. Much further up river than that; I think there are older exposures. I'd say it's a dark gray color, not quite black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, garyc said: I found it on the Brazos River, SE Texas. Mostly pleistocene/holocene w/ the seldom found miocene and eocene exposures about a hundred miles to the north. Much further up river than that; I think there are older exposures. I'd say it's a dark gray color, not quite black. Terrestrial or marine? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, ynot said: Terrestrial or marine? Sorry, Tony. The older exposures to the far north are marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Kinda looks like Siphonodendron, a paleozoic colonial rugose coral but clearly it would have to have been transported from further afield.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Hate to muddy the water further, but rudist colony was my first thought. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Maybe a tube worm colony, but I am just guessing. It is a strange one. Maybe @Harry Pristis will have an idea on whether it is a tooth or not. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coled18 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I am leaning towards coral on this one, it looks like a chunk of syringopora. CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, ynot said: Maybe a tube worm colony, but I am just guessing. It is a strange one. Maybe @Harry Pristis will have an idea on whether it is a tooth or not. It's like no tooth I've ever seen. Much more likely to be a colonial invertebrate. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 hours ago, coled18 said: I am leaning towards coral on this one, it looks like a chunk of syringopora. I don't think so. The walls are too strait and thick, and the interconnections are missing. Instead they seem to be fused together to the point of being shared in places. At first glance the color suggests plant, but no other indications follow. The rusty color tends to make me think we are dealing with iron that was in a somewhat reduced environment at the time. There are tube worm colonies that live near mid ocean vents today, so I think something like that would be my guess too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I don't think it's a coral - there's no internal structure visible in the sectioned tubes at the top. If it's a derived piece, I still think Hyalostelia-type root spicules is a good possibility, they run parallel just like that. They'd likely still be made of silica so a hardness test might help decide, wouldn't scratch with a knife. Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, TqB said: I don't think it's a coral - there's no internal structure visible in the sectioned tubes at the top. If it's a derived piece, I still think Hyalostelia-type root spicules is a good possibility, they run parallel just like that. They'd likely still be made of silica so a hardness test might help decide, wouldn't scratch with a knife. Can you share an example that is more informative than that of our friends at Google ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: Can you share an example that is more informative than that of our friends at Google ? I don't have any good specimens but this one is similar, from the Mississippian. The tubes are about 0.5mm but they can be wider, 1mm or more. Brass scale is 1cm long. And an illustration of Hyalostelia smithi, Lower Carboniferous, from the Natural History Museum handbook "British Palaeozoic Fossils". It's x1 so the rule gives the scale. Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Thank you all for the input. I'm sure one of you is right. Just don't know which one. I guess this is one that would have to be seen in hand. At least mammal tooth can be ruled out and the id's are trending toward marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, TqB said: an illustration of Hyalostelia smithi 1 hour ago, garyc said: I guess this is one that would have to be seen in hand. I can see how one might get there from here with a lens in the other hand. The fact that the post shows considerable fusion between the tubes still seems like a worm thing to me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: I can see how one might get there from here with a lens in the other hand. The fact that the post shows considerable fusion between the tubes still seems like a worm thing to me though. Could well be. Whether carbonate or silica would be suggestive - silica for hexactinellid, though I'm told replacement by carbonate can happen for siliceous sponges. (I've not come across silicified serpulids though I suppose that's also possible...) Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I wouldn't rule out hexactinellid sponge root tuft as a good possibility. The problem is gained by the shared walls. I think in Don's example from this topic we can see the shared wall structure in the holding matrix. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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