Machu Picchu fossil found

[Tish]

Found in the mountain area just above Machu Picchu. Not sure if animal or human. Python, llama, panther? Haven't a clue.

[Miocene_Mason]

@Harry Pristis

 

i think this would be ungulate, perhaps llama or bovid.

[Fossildude19]

Welcome to the Forum.  

Llama astragalus is a good possibility. 

[Harry Pristis]

 

Lamine (llamas and vicuna) camelid astragali for comparison:

 

 

[KimTexan]

Was it found on Huayna Picchu? If so my bet is it has to be llama, alpaca or vacuña. Llama are the most prevalent though. I don't know for sure, but I don't believe there are mountain goats in the Andean. Huayna Picchu is so steep it would have to be one of those animals. Provided the elevation was the same when it was fossilized. Is it fossilized?

I don't think you'd find pythons at 8,000 foot elevation. It's generally a bit cooler there.

That is such a cool place to find a fossil though! I've been there, but I was in such awe of the place I never looked for fossils. It's one of my top 5 favorite places in the world that I've been to.

Cool find!

[Rockwood]

For this to be a fossil that has eroded from the ground in the normal sequence at this altitude wouldn't it be from before these animals evolved ?

It seems more likely that it is just very old.

[Harry Pristis]

Just to clean up some details in this thread:  It would be difficult to distinquish between llama, alpaca, and vicuna astragali except based on size, and this is reliable, I think, only with a series of examples to measure.  Llama is a reasonable guess for this bone. 

 

There is no certain correlation between altitude and age of mammal fossils in the Andean region because of tectonic features and resilient intramontane poplulations.  Age of this bone is unknown based on available information.

 

I don't think there are any Cenozoic pythons endemic to South America at any altitude.  Only boas there.  Neither pythons nor boas have astragali, though both have rudimentary hind legs.

[Taogan]

Looks too big for vicuna, and pythons and boas don't have feet. Llama or alpaca is my guess and found where it was found I would also guess more modern than fossil.

[Harry Pristis]

1 hour ago, Taogan said:

Looks too big for vicuna, and pythons and boas don't have feet. Llama or alpaca is my guess and found where it was found I would also guess more modern than fossil.

Vicuna are smaller than llama and alpaca, no doubt. 

 

Boids never had an astragalus.  However, maybe pythons and boas do have feet, if we consider as a "foot" the distal element of their vestigial hind limbs, a sharp claw.  This seems to be the boid vestigial foot.  These claws (or "spurs") are independently maneuverable and are used in mating behavior.  They are located on either side of the snake's vent.  The claws are supported by muscles and vestigial limb bones inside the boid body.  I have observed unexpected dexterity many times in breeding pythons.  

[Tish]

Thank you all so much! Seems definitely a llama or similar. Have no idea of the age, but definitely not a fresh bone! And I found it far along the trail to the Sun Gate, above Machu Picchu, just peeking out of the dirt on the side of the trail, as I was zooming in on a wildflower to photograph. I agree, Peru, the Central Valley with all those ruins in the mountains, and Machu Picchu make this area a definite must see! I have no idea how long llamas or Alpacas have been used in that area, so don't know if it was one used by the Incas or one of the more recent tourist attraction llamas...will Google it! Again, thank you for the swift responses, and the other photos!

[jpc]

17 minutes ago, Tish said:

Thank you all so much! Seems definitely a llama or similar. Have no idea of the age, but definitely not a fresh bone! And I found it far along the trail to the Sun Gate, above Machu Picchu, just peeking out of the dirt on the side of the trail, as I was zooming in on a wildflower to photograph. I agree, Peru, the Central Valley with all those ruins in the mountains, and Machu Picchu make this area a definite must see! I have no idea how long llamas or Alpacas have been used in that area, so don't know if it was one used by the Incas or one of the more recent tourist attraction llamas...will Google it! Again, thank you for the swift responses, and the other photos!

Not necessarily used by humans, as llama type beasts are native to this area.  Although I am not sure if they are native to Machu Pichu exactly.  

[Miocene_Mason]

17 minutes ago, Tish said:

Thank you all so much! Seems definitely a llama or similar. Have no idea of the age, but definitely not a fresh bone! And I found it far along the trail to the Sun Gate, above Machu Picchu, just peeking out of the dirt on the side of the trail, as I was zooming in on a wildflower to photograph. I agree, Peru, the Central Valley with all those ruins in the mountains, and Machu Picchu make this area a definite must see! I have no idea how long llamas or Alpacas have been used in that area, so don't know if it was one used by the Incas or one of the more recent tourist attraction llamas...will Google it! Again, thank you for the swift responses, and the other photos!

The inca used llamas, they arrived in South America in the great American exchange. I suspect it to be fairly modern, I suggest a burn test (hold flame to it, if it's starts to smell like burnt hair it isn't a fossil) this will show if it's a fossil or not, but won't show if it's ancient or not.

[Harry Pristis]

The Great American Faunal Interchange started about a million years ago with the emergence of the Panamanian Land Bridge.

 

"[Paleontologists] established the fact that certain fossil llamas in Argentina and in Bolivia represent two extinct genera, much larger than any living llama and possessing extra premolars.  They were named, respectively, Palaeolama . . . and Hemiauchenia . . . ."  (from PLEISTOCENE LLAMAS OF FLORIDA by S. David Webb)  These are the two genera found in Florida.   The larger taxonomy of these llamas is bewildering.  Some early llamas emigrated to South America, quickly radiated new species, some of which came back to North America, according to Webb.  

[Rockwood]

4 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

There is no certain correlation between altitude and age of mammal fossils in the Andean region because of tectonic features and resilient intramontane poplulations.  Age of this bone is unknown based on available information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machu_Picchu

That spot has to have been in e-world (erosional) for a long, long time.