Pterosaur/ Bird Bone Bits from the Austin Chalk?

[Heteromorph]

  I found this rock a few years ago and have been wondering about the fossils in it ever since. At first I thought that they where some kind of fish remains, but upon further inspection I am beginning to think that they may be bits of either pterosaur or bird bone. But I really don't know. 

 

  This rock was found in North Texas in the Upper Coniacian stage of the Austin Chalk Formation. The member of this formation in which I found these fossils is extremely scarce in any vertebrate fossils, with most of the them coming from a more blue/gray toned member of the Austin Chalk which I believe lies underneath this member. In fact, if these are vertebrate fossils then they would be the first and only ones that I have found to date.

 

  Aside from vertebrate fossils, the only other thing that I thought that these could be were bits of the hinge of an Inoceramid oyster, which I have found. The last attached photo is of a hinge that I found recently only about 1 mile away from where I found this rock.

 

  However, there are a few problems with this theory, the first being the lack of any prismatic (calcitic) crystals being visible in any of the pieces, which there would be if these fossils really were cross section bits of an Inocermid hinge. The prismatic crystals are clearly visible in the cross section view of my Inoceramid hinge.

  Second, even if I am just not seeing the prismatic crystals, the piece pictured in F7 appears to me to be hollow with a thin, bony looking wall. It is this feature that first got me thinking that these could be bone bits from a pterosaur or a bird. The only thing that makes me rethink that theory is the fact that the larger piece pictured in F2-F3 is completely filled in on the inside and even has something sticking up in the center of it, pictured specifically in F3. But I also do not know for sure whether these two pieces are actually related at all. Compare my fossils with this TFF article about a possible pterosaur bone from the TXI quarry in Midlothian, Texas, which is in the Upper Turonian Atco Formation:

    And third, at the broken end of the piece pictured specifically in F5 and F6, I see what I perceive as stepped layers where some of it flaked off. That is good evidence against it being an Inoceramid hinge, because the prismatic crystals would be running parallel with an Inoceramid hinge's length, not running perpendicular to it. And as the steppes go down, it seems to show layers of more reddish material, which is also something that I have never seen from an inoceramid shell.

 

  There are four main pieces in this rock (which are presumably related) that I am inquiring about, which are pictured in F1-F9. But there are other pieces in this rock that might be related to them, pictured in F10-F12. I also have a few other pieces in this rock that I am pretty sure are not related to the others, pictured in F13 and F14 . F13 is something that I have seen before, but I still do not know what it is, and F14 looks kind of like the shell of a very small urchin, but I really have no idea.  
 

  The rock its self is 16 cm long. The largest of the 4 main pieces is pictured in F2, F3 and F13 and is 14½ mm in diameter and has 5 mm of it visible above the rock, plus the part of it sticking up in the center. The second largest piece pictured in F4-F7 is 9 mm in diameter and 6 mm in length. The third largest piece pictured in F8 is 5 mm long. And the smallest piece which is right next to the second largest piece is pictured in F4, F9 and is 5 mm long. There are many bits and pieces in this rock that I just can't take pictures of because this post would be 45 pages long. 

 

  If photos or information apart from what I have already given is needed then I would be happy to give it.

 

  I could be way out there and totally off, so I appreciate any help/correction that I get. I am more of an ammonite guy and I don't really know that much at all about vertebrates. Even if these are nothing, I will have learned something. 

 

F1

F2

  

[Heteromorph]

F3

F4

F5

F6

F7

F8

 

 

 

[Heteromorph]

F9

 

 

[DPS Ammonite]

I can't tell if it is bone. However the dark color looks promising for bone. Can you test the possible bone with drop of 5-10% HCl solution? Bone won't react while limestone and calcite that fills bones pores will. Also, have you taken it to a local paleontology group yet. The Dallas Paleontology members could tell you if it were bone if you show the the fossil in person.

[Heteromorph]

F10

F11

 

 

17 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said:

I can't tell if it is bone. However the dark color looks promissing for bone. Can you test the possible bone with drop of 5-10% HCl solution? Bone won't react while limestone and calcite that fills bones pores will. Also, have you taken it to a local paleontology group yet. The Dallas Paleontology members could tell you if it were bone if you show the the fossil in person.

  No I have not yet. That is probably the best thing to do come the second Wednesday of November. 

[Heteromorph]

F12

F13

F14

 

 

F15

[Heteromorph]

17 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said:

I can't tell if it is bone. However the dark color looks promissing for bone. Can you test the possible bone with drop of 5-10% HCl solution? Bone won't react while limestone and calcite that fills bones pores will. Also, have you taken it to a local paleontology group yet. The Dallas Paleontology members could tell you if it were bone if you show the the fossil in person.

  I will try that test, hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!

[Heteromorph]

31 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said:

I can't tell if it is bone. However the dark color looks promissing for bone. Can you test the possible bone with drop of 5-10% HCl solution? Bone won't react while limestone and calcite that fills bones pores will. Also, have you taken it to a local paleontology group yet. The Dallas Paleontology members could tell you if it were bone if you show the the fossil in person.

  By the way, would you happen to know where one gets HCI?

[bone2stone]

2 hours ago, Heteromorph said:

  By the way, would you happen to know where one gets HCI?

Hydrochloric may be obtained through Swimming pool suppliers among others.

Muratic acid is the name it goes under (Dilute form).

 

 

[LordTrilobite]

I'd say that that round cross section looks quite promising, like something I'd expect from a broken pterosaur limb bone. As far as I know birds still have much thicker bone walls, while pterosaurs have incredibly thin bone walls. The bones are not completely hollow either though, there would be thin struts reaching in to the other side to give the bone a stronger structure.

 

I have a partial pterosaur beak from the Kem Kem beds and it shows similar flaky/layered bone structure.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/collections-database/chordata/amphibians-reptiles/pterosaur-jaw-fragment-r144/

 

[Fruitbat]

If you don't want to try the HCl and you're up for a little road trip, the Dallas Paleontological Society is sponsoring FossilMania in Glen Rose this upcoming weekend.  There will likely be somebody there who can give you some assistance.

 

-Joe

[Heteromorph]

5 hours ago, bone2stone said:

Hydrochloric may be obtained through Swimming pool suppliers among others.

Muratic acid is the name it goes under (Dilute form).

 

 

Thanks! I will see if I can do that.

[Heteromorph]

4 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

I'd say that that round cross section looks quite promising, like something I'd expect from a broken pterosaur limb bone. As far as I know birds still have much thicker bone walls, while pterosaurs have incredibly thin bone walls. The bones are not completely hollow either though, there would be thin struts reaching in to the other side to give the bone a stronger structure.

 

I have a partial pterosaur beak from the Kem Kem beds and it shows similar flaky/layered bone structure.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/collections-database/chordata/amphibians-reptiles/pterosaur-jaw-fragment-r144/

 

  I was thinking more like pterosaur also. Thanks for the link! 

2 hours ago, Fruitbat said:

If you don't want to try the HCl and you're up for a little road trip, the Dallas Paleontological Society is sponsoring FossilMania in Glen Rose this upcoming weekend.  There will likely be somebody there who can give you some assistance.

 

-Joe

  I was going to go anyways so that’s a good idea. Thanks!

[GeschWhat]

My first impression of F5-F7 was that it is a fish vertebra. The rock that is in wouldn't happen to be a coprolite would it? 

[Heteromorph]

1 hour ago, GeschWhat said:

My first impression of F5-F7 was that it is a fish vertebra. The rock that is in wouldn't happen to be a coprolite would it? 

  Nope, just a chunk of chalk rock with fossils in it. 

[bone2stone]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 9:05 AM, Heteromorph said:

  I was thinking more like pterosaur also. Thanks for the link! 

  I was going to go anyways so that’s a good idea. Thanks!

Hope to see you there.

[Heteromorph]

1 hour ago, bone2stone said:

Hope to see you there.

  I am actually just now coming home from Fossil Mania. I brought this fossil and a few other ones for identification. Roger Farish and a guy from Huston were there, so I asked them. At first they were very skeptical about whether or not it was even a vertebrate fossil, but a bit later, after showing him some up close pictures, the man from Huston said that they have a 55% chance of being vertebrate fossils. However, he said that if they were vertebrate they were probably of fish origin. Also Roger eventually came around and said that they could be vertebrate, but he was not sure. 

 

  Also while I was talking to Roger he said that the test for whether or not they are bone can be done using regular vinegar. I will try that soon, because that would be a lot easier than messing with muraric acid. 

[Chase B.]

Dear all,

 

I can confirm that what you have here is a mix of cycloid and ctenoid fish scales and a fish vertebra. 

 

Regards, 

 

Chase 

[Heteromorph]

13 hours ago, Chase B. said:

Dear all,

 

I can confirm that what you have here is a mix of cycloid and ctenoid fish scales and a fish vertebra. 

 

Regards, 

 

Chase 

  Thanks! I will post more pictures of it when I get it further prepared.

[Heteromorph]

  So I went to the DPS meeting tonight and brought this rock for identification. The first man that I talked to said that they look like pieces of a rudist, and then the second man that I talked to said that they look like pieces of the hinge of an inoceramid. The latter opinion is, I am quite sure, off the table for the reasons that I have listed above. As for that first opinion, rudist anyone?I haven’t heard of rudists being found in this part of the Austin Chalk, but I could be wrong. 

 

  I have prepared it for about 3 hours now. I will post pictures of it here when I am done. Hopefully then we can get a conclusive opinion.