Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 This morning I happily acquired a Rhino tooth encased in jaw to add to my collection. It is my 3rd Florida Rhino fossil and I have my eye on a 4th. Now I start asking questions. This seems to be a lower tooth, the first or last tooth on the left side. I am also unsure of which exact Rhino species had this tooth. The jaw segment is 4.5 inches and the occlusal length is 2.25 inches. This tooth seems different from the teeth in this FLMNH mandible of Teleoceras proterum . All comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated. 2 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Lovely tooth!! Congrats on the acquisition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Great piece Jack! I’ve found exactly 1 rhino tooth in 17 years Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Good on ya Jack, nice find! RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, jcbshark said: Great piece Jack! I’ve found exactly 1 rhino tooth in 17 years Foozil, Ron, Jeff, Thanks for the replies. You are really lucky , Jeff. I have never found a tooth, I have found an astragulas that I did not recognize and Richard Hulbert identified for me. I guess I have another 7 years or so until my first.. These are like hen's teeth.... I purchased a lower right M3 (Menoceras barbouri) in August 2016 and now this one. It is a small collection. I have been searching the internet and reading pdfs and Hulbert's books.. There are few direct views of mandible teeth. Researchers seem fixated on upper jaws (maybe they survive better). What I need is photos like my first one. This tooth is a lower right M3, and I am beginning to think that it may be Aphelops rather than Teleoceras. Here is the best photo (wrong angle) that I found of an Aphelops mandible. This kinda looks similar. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Aphelops teeth run a bit larger than the two Teleoceras species teeth, I believe. I have found more than a few Teleoceras teeth, but only one Aphelops. There may be some size overlap, but I don't have any comparisons to cite. Keep in mind that rhinos are evolutionarily conservative, which implies that it may be difficult to distinguish between isolated teeth. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said: Aphelops teeth run a bit larger than the two Teleoceras species teeth, I believe. I have found more than a few Teleoceras teeth, but only one Aphelops. There may be some size overlap, but I don't have any comparisons to cite. Keep in mind that rhinos are evolutionarily conservative, which implies that it may be difficult to distinguish between isolated teeth. Thanks Harry, I hoped that you would see this post and comment on the tooth. Your insights are accurate plus your collections and knowledge are vast. It is a great looking tooth and you know that I'll be pleased whatever Rhino species it turns out to be. From the photo of Teleoceras teeth/jaws above, this unidentified tooth seems to be missing the loph of enamel going thru the dentine. I have sent photos to Richard Hulbert seeking his evaluation. Harry , when you read, check out the tooth. I said "left" above. Is that correct? I am now thinking right. Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Shellseeker said: Thanks Harry, I hoped that you would see this post and comment on the tooth. Your insights are accurate plus your collections and knowledge are vast. It is a great looking tooth and you know that I'll be pleased whatever Rhino species it turns out to be. From the photo of Teleoceras teeth/jaws above, this unidentified tooth seems to be missing the loph of enamel going thru the dentine. I have sent photos to Richard Hulbert seeking his evaluation. Harry , when you read, check out the tooth. I said "left" above. Is that correct? I am now thinking right. Jack I think right m3 is correct. Your tooth is a senile example, and the two cusps have been worn to virtually one. The enamel surface you've circled does not continue through the dentin, despite appearances. Tomorrow afternoon, I'll make some images and take some measurements of a few teeth in my drqwer. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Enjoying the evaluation: providing accurate measurements of the m3 molar. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Here are two more teeth which COULD BE m3 examples. I had to guess that based on contact facets, or lack thereof. The probability gets tenuous with the unworn (newley erupting) tooth. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Sweet addition Jack. Informative thread! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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