Jump to content

MedicineHat

Recommended Posts

Hi i was hoping someone could identify this tooth from near Medicine Hat AB. I found it along hadrosaur spitters and turtle carapace fragments. Lots of fossils in the area but this is unique.

 

 

20171101_222133.jpg

20171101_210810-1728x2304.jpg

20171101_221205-1728x2304.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Any way we can get a better focused image of the occlusal surface? Try outside in bright light for the best possible chance of capturing detail.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

P.S.: Welcome to the forum.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, digit said:

Any way we can get a better focused image of the occlusal surface? Try outside in bright light for the best possible chance of capturing detail.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

P.S.: Welcome to the forum.

Yeah, we need much better photos.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, jpc said:

Yeah, we need much better photos.  

Thanks guys, I'm going to figure out how to reduce the file size of the pictures and get some good pics posted.

I really appreciate your help. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, MedicineHat said:

Thanks guys, I'm going to figure out how to reduce the file size of the pictures and get some good pics posted.

I really appreciate your help. 

If you have a computer you can edit the photos by cropping them this in turn reduces the file size, also if you have a loop you can put that on top.of your camera lens to get a better close up picture.

  • I found this Informative 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Haravex said:

If you have a computer you can edit the photos by cropping them this in turn reduces the file size, also if you have a loop you can put that on top.of your camera lens to get a better close up picture.

Thanks. I figured out how to get the pictures to the right file size. Hopefully my phone camera will be good enough. I have posted a couple more photos. Probably not helpful so I will get some better ones tomorrow.

20171101_210759.jpg

20171101_221205-1728x2304.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have also added a picture of my micro-specimens from this season. Amazing what pops out of the river valley 

20171029_100959-864x1152.jpg

  • I found this Informative 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I agree, maybe. I originally thought it might be something like a ceratopsian spitter tooth with the occlusal surface shown in the blurry photo. In the sharper image it does look less like the chewing surface and more like the broken root side. In the very first close-up photo there appears to be a groove running along the outside of this that should instead be a raised seam on gator teeth. I'm not really seeing any tapering in the earlier photos and I'm wondering if this might not also be something like a hollow fragment of a long bone? Quite fun to speculate at what this curious piece may be but without being familiar with the types of items found in that area, it is difficult to get a handle on the proper ID.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like a tooth fragment for sure.  The crystal pattern going perpendicular to the outer surface says 'tooth'.  Whose tooth?  I can't venture a guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking at your micro stuff from the season and can ID most but not this one.

 

IMG_0700.thumb.PNG.662aa9f2294a4c429dde68fb5e486d9c.PNG

Can you show of few more pictures of it.

thanks

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been told that this large tooth is from a bison, cow, or horse. I found it amongst the river stones in the river bed when the water was low. I have seen similar of these before but always modern. This one has some fossilization mineralization happened to it. It's also neat because it has some bluish coloring. Ill get some pictures up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/11/2017 at 8:31 AM, digit said:

Any way we can get a better focused image of the occlusal surface? Try outside in bright light for the best possible chance of capturing detail.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

P.S.: Welcome to the forum.

 

20171001_200223_crop_352x352.jpg

20171001_200338_crop_352x352.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/11/2017 at 9:30 PM, MedicineHat said:

I have also added a picture of my micro-specimens from this season. Amazing what pops out of the river valley 

20171029_100959-864x1152.jpg

I have added some additional photos of the theropod teeth in case anyone can help me identify between albertasaurus and dromeasaurid?? This formation may have gorgosaurus and daspletosaurus as well. Not sure about the raptor types common in the area. Thinking there would not be tyrannosaurus rex. From left to right:

20171104_094521-1152x864.jpg

20171104_094722-864x1152.jpg

20171104_094726-864x1152.jpg

20171104_094756_crop_691x691.jpg

20171104_094910_crop_691x691.jpg

20171104_094920_crop_691x691.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Small theropod teeth can be challenging to ID.  I'd recommend getting this book.  Well worth it.

 

IMG_0701.thumb.PNG.5100932361dafde163e68825b0ba6aaf.PNG

 

Troodon teeth, which I don't think you have, are the easiest to ID because of their distinctive serrations.  

Dromaeosaur vs Saurornitholestes teeth can be challenging to differentiate.  You'd prob need a microscope to compare the serrations.

If the tooth is beafier, then prob a Daspletosaur or Gorgo.  The Daspletosaur tooth is usually more slender than the Gorgo's.

I also have 2 good PDF's to help ID micro- fossils.  PM me if interested.

  • I found this Informative 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, frenchy2 said:

Small theropod teeth can be challenging to ID.  I'd recommend getting this book.  Well worth it.

 

IMG_0701.thumb.PNG.5100932361dafde163e68825b0ba6aaf.PNG

 

Troodon teeth, which I don't think you have, are the easiest to ID because of their distinctive serrations.  

Dromaeosaur vs Saurornitholestes teeth can be challenging to differentiate.  You'd prob need a microscope to compare the serrations.

If the tooth is beafier, then prob a Daspletosaur or Gorgo.  The Daspletosaur tooth is usually more slender than the Gorgo's.

I also have 2 good PDF's to help ID micro- fossils.  PM me if interested.

Thanks for the reply. I actually have the book and my neighbour was really good friends with Hope Johnson so he helps me out quite a bit. I'm interested in the pdf files for sure. I need to figure out the private message function. I can't stand the technology haha

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cambridge University Press. 0521438101 - Dinosaur Systematics: Approaches and Perspectives - Edited by Kenneth Carpenter and Philip J. Currie. E

 

This is best book out there to help you with theropod teeth from Alberta.  It's a bit dated but still very useful in identification of teeth.

 

Most of your larger teeth and Pre-max are tyannosaurid.  Papers by Phil Currie et al have indicated that there is no way to identify isolated tyrannosaurid teeth to a species level.    Only two tyranno species have been described from Dinosaur Park Fm, Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus.  Albertosaurus is currently not known from that fauna  but from the younger Horseshoe Formation.  So your teeth are best identified as tyrannosaurus indet.

In trying to identify dromaeosaurid from others it's fairly easy.  You need to compare the serrations of both carina.  With Dromaeosaurid teeth the density of serrations of are visibly different on both edges.  The distal side has fewer serrations and the mesial edge are fine or not present.  If the serrations are identical on both edges and the tooth is large its probably a tyrannosaurid.

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, frenchy2 said:

Small theropod teeth can be challenging to ID.  I'd recommend getting this book.  Well worth it.

 

 

 

Troodon teeth, which I don't think you have, are the easiest to ID because of their distinctive serrations.  

Dromaeosaur vs Saurornitholestes teeth can be challenging to differentiate.  You'd prob need a microscope to compare the serrations.

If the tooth is beafier, then prob a Daspletosaur or Gorgo.  The Daspletosaur tooth is usually more slender than the Gorgo's.

I also have 2 good PDF's to help ID micro- fossils.  PM me if interested.

Couple of points 

It's fairly easy to differentiate between Dromaeosaurus and Saurornitholestes teeth.  First the teeth of Saur. are typically smaller and very compressed.  If you look at Saur. teeth under a scope you will notice that the denticles are straight but at the very end it points to the tip.  Dromaeosaurus teeth also have a twist in one of the carina.  The book I mentioned in the above post shows all of this in detail.

 

See my comments on the previous post on tyrannosauruid  ID

 

FYI Troodon is no longer considered a valid genus.  There are now two troodontids.  A paper recently published has described one new species and resurrected a older name from Dinosaur Park Formation.  So it will be impossible to differentiate Isolated teeth between these two species and will have to be identified Troodontid indet.  The two are Stenonychosaurus inequalis and Latenivenatrix mcmasterae.  

 

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Cambridge University Press. 0521438101 - Dinosaur Systematics: Approaches and Perspectives - Edited by Kenneth Carpenter and Philip J. Currie. E

 

This is best book out there to help you with theropod teeth from Alberta.  It's a bit dated but still very useful in identification of teeth.

 

Most of your larger teeth and Pre-max are tyannosaurid.  Papers by Phil Currie et al have indicated that there is no way to identify isolated tyrannosaurid teeth to a species level.    Only two tyranno species have been described from Dinosaur Park Fm, Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus.  Albertosaurus is currently not known from that fauna  but from the younger Horseshoe Formation.  So your teeth are best identified as tyrannosaurus indet.

In trying to identify dromaeosaurid from others it's fairly easy.  You need to compare the serrations of both carina.  With Dromaeosaurid teeth the density of serrations of are visibly different on both edges.  The distal side has fewer serrations and the mesial edge are fine or not present.  If the serrations are identical on both edges and the tooth is large its probably a tyrannosaurid.

Hi Troodon,

Thanks for providing me with this information. I have read your previous posts about tooth identification  of raptor from different formations.I can't see any visible difference between the two serration edges of the smaller teeth. Would this be noticible without magnification? Would it be a subtle difference if any?

Also, here in medicine hat, I search near the south Saskatchewan river, so oldman formation perhaps or considered "belly river" or "judith"?? Dinosaur park formation is further north as I understand it.

Do you believe albertasaurus is not in the medicine hat area?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The differences should be visible on Belly River Teeth without magnification, nothing subtle very noticible.  A serrations count under magnification at midline 5mm wide can verify the difference.  

 

The papers I'm seeing have not described an Albertosaurus from the Belly River Deposits only very late Campanian early Maastrichtian like the Horseshoe near Drumheller.  This could change with new discoveries 

 

Here is the breakdown on Belly River Gp.  I'm a bit confused on the proper use of Judith but think it's currently only used to describe teeth from the Judith of Montana.

 

Alberta2.jpg.16b76b2bbb32ba00dee23f7541ecde08.jpg

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya thanks for your insights. I'm learning a lot. This field of study is an endless challenge. I like it. Now hopefully I will be able to have a half decent knowledge of my own collection.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...