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MedicineHat

Unknown small partial claw? Or bone fragment?

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MedicineHat

Hi. Im hoping someone could identify this specimen. It's very small, a little less than an inch long. 

I thought it was bone fragment at first but it also resembles some claw characteristics.

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20171105_164824-336x446.jpg

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ynot
46 minutes ago, MedicineHat said:

Im hoping someone could identify this specimen.

Where was it found?

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Macrophyseter

Like ynot said, we need to know where exactly the specimen was found, as it easily narrows the countless millions of possibilities.

 

For the specimen itself, Speaking with pure guessing, I think that it looks more like a bone fragment than a claw fragment. I think the texture seems to be ivory-like and too rough to be from a claw, but I might be just used to the ones being much smoother.

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PyritizeMe

Could be many things like suggested, if found on the surface maybe it is bone , or tooth , or antler . Get yourself a hand lense and investigate closer for a better idea .

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MedicineHat
10 hours ago, ynot said:

Where was it found?

Found near Jenner Alberta. Dinosaur park formation. It's mineralization completely. It has a line down the top which I was curious about. Neurovascular canal? Also on the underside I see a small "trough" where it widens at the end. 

I might take it to a vet to get a better take on the anatomy. 

Pictures don't really show this piece very good because it has some subtle nuances that are not showing up.

Let me know if you have any ideas.

I have an ornithmimus claw from the same location which is about 10 times larger, however the shape is very similar.

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Troodon

There are features that suggest a theropod claw, especially this view, but it's to fragmentary to make a definitive call.  

 

20171105_164824-336x446.jpg.22ef3f6ecc49340c3784a535949a4c99.jpg.8d70f765e3a631729097d6dfdbc184e5.jpg

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MedicineHat
38 minutes ago, Troodon said:

There are features that suggest a theropod claw, especially this view, but it's to fragmentary to make a definitive call.  

 

20171105_164824-336x446.jpg.22ef3f6ecc49340c3784a535949a4c99.jpg.8d70f765e3a631729097d6dfdbc184e5.jpg

I tried to get more detail but it's perhaps not possible to identify by photograph.

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20171107_070051-1728x2304.jpg

20171107_070045-1382x1843.jpg

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Troodon

Much better perspectives and sure looks like a claw.   

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MedicineHat
14 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Much better perspectives and sure looks lIke a claw.   

"If" it were a claw, I cannot recall any other specimens that would compare to this. Juvenile ornithomimid? Any guesses as to what direction i could continue researching?

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Troodon

It's not ornithomimid.  You could bring it to the Tyrrell if you are close.  It's doubtful you will find it in literature. 

 

Let's see if @hxmendoza can help

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frenchy2

I am wondering if it could be Ornithomimid hand claw.  They are not as curved as theropod claws.

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hxmendoza
19 hours ago, Troodon said:

It's not ornithomimid.  You could bring it to the Tyrrell if you are close.  It's doubtful you will find it in literature. 

 

Let's see if @hxmendoza can help

 

No clue here either. That depression on the dorsal surface is reminiscent of an ornithomimid. But then there is that flexor tubercle that emerges from it. Somewhat Archaeornithomus-like, but then it also seems too narrow overall. So I agree with Troodon with taking it to RTMP. 

 

Troodon, you own my old Archaeornithomimus claw nowadays. What do you think?

 

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Troodon

Thanks Hx,  This depression is what has me puzzled, I don't see it with Ornith or Archaeornithomimus hand claws.  That depression exist in an undescribed large ornithomimid (Longrich 2008) from dinosaur park but it's on a foot claw not hand.  The hand claws have a typical tubercle.  The museum might be interested.  

 

20171107_070051-1728x2304.thumb.jpg.770ec11aa1635c8f632fd40ff205be57.jpg.d166124c6a445b5f221f7885b99357a3.jpg

 

The one in my collection from Montana 

ArchClawbot-D10.thumb.jpg.73b6c6129f990a7390184e49980befc6.jpg

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MedicineHat
2 hours ago, Troodon said:

Thanks Hx,  This depression is what has me puzzled, I don't see it with Ornith or Archaeornithomimus hand claws.  That depression exist in an undescribed large ornithomimid (Longrich 2008) from dinosaur park but it's on a foot claw not hand.  The hand claws have a typical tubercle.  The museum might be interested.  

 

20171107_070051-1728x2304.thumb.jpg.770ec11aa1635c8f632fd40ff205be57.jpg.d166124c6a445b5f221f7885b99357a3.jpg

 

The one in my collection from Montana 

ArchClawbot-D10.thumb.jpg.73b6c6129f990a7390184e49980befc6.jpg

Thanks for sharing your interest in this piece. It is very interesting. I'm still not convinced it's a claw specimen but I will be taking the kids to the museum again soon (I say it's for the kids but who am I kidding). I'll have to follow up again later. Thanks again for your expertise and advice.

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hxmendoza
9 hours ago, Troodon said:

Thanks Hx,  This depression is what has me puzzled, I don't see it with Ornith or Archaeornithomimus hand claws.  That depression exist in an undescribed large ornithomimid (Longrich 2008) from dinosaur park but it's on a foot claw not hand.  The hand claws have a typical tubercle.  The museum might be interested.  

 

20171107_070051-1728x2304.thumb.jpg.770ec11aa1635c8f632fd40ff205be57.jpg.d166124c6a445b5f221f7885b99357a3.jpg

 

The one in my collection from Montana 

ArchClawbot-D10.thumb.jpg.73b6c6129f990a7390184e49980befc6.jpg

 

Yep, the claw you’ve pictured is the one I used to own several years ago. Thanks for posting that photo! I only referred to it because of the depression with a flexor tubercle, that it also has, as a comparison. Sorry, I meant to write “Archaeornithomimid-like” rather than “Archaornithomimus”. I seem to recall that Archaeornithomus foot claws have a similar depression with flexor and that Longrich made reference to it when discussing the undescribed DPP specimen. But that that was years ago and unfortunately I can’t find my reference. I may have erred in that. I can’t remember right now.  

 

But I don’t think it’s a match either. It is too laterally compressed (narrow) compared to your Montana claw. The claw in question, could be a hand claw, but it could also be a foot claw also. Unfortunately the proximal end is gone. That being said, I’m on board with you and others that it’s definitely unusual, probably something new, and should be looked at by the museum, and probably even donated for study. I don’t know if it’s dinosaur or something else either. I couldn’t say.

 

Thanks for inviting me to this conversation. 

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hxmendoza

So I went back and realized I did err. Please disregard my Archaeornithomimus reference above. The taxon I meant to refer to is Garudimimus brevipes. The foot claws on this taxon are similar to the undescribed Dinosaur Provincial Park reporter by Nicholas Longrich. And also to Troodon’s pictured Montana claw.

 

Very sorry about that.

 

Regardless though, the claw in question is still different and perplexing. 

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