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Puzzle in poop - Cartilage, denticles or tooth plate in coprolite?


GeschWhat

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I have been finding a lot of inclusions in a batch of coprolites from the Smoky Hill Chalk that assumed were bits of cartilage. One of the newer specimens from that batch had a piece of the material in question on the surface; enabling me to view it from the side. They look like little teeth, so now I don't know what I have. I have one other specimen that has a couple of the little tooth-like structures intact (one that I posted a while back that has possible Ptychodus tooth fragments). Is this skin with denticles, cartilage, a skull part or some sort of tooth plate? As always, any help is greatly appreciated. 

IMG_4413.jpg

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Here is another coprolite with similar material embedded. I don't know if it helps, but the visible scales and some of the bones on this one look like they might be from a lobe-finned fish. I'm waiting for a few more to arrive before I try exposing anything on this.

KSUS-NF-SHC-10.jpg

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Albulid tooth plates maybe? They look similar to some I found in the Britton Shale (Eagle Ford Group) here in north Texas. Smokey Hill Chalk has similar fauna as the Eagle Ford and Austin.

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Sure looks like fish tooth plate. Here's an image from Harry's collection:

 

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

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1 hour ago, Ptychodus04 said:

Albulid tooth plates maybe? They look similar to some I found in the Britton Shale (Eagle Ford Group) here in north Texas. Smokey Hill Chalk has similar fauna as the Eagle Ford and Austin.

Do you happen to have a species in mind? All I am seeing is the rounded crushing teeth. Here are a couple more photos from another coprolite showing more pointy tooth-like structures.

Unknown Inclusion-2.jpg

Unknown Inclusion.jpg

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1 hour ago, GeschWhat said:

Do you happen to have a species in mind? All I am seeing is the rounded crushing teeth. Here are a couple more photos from another coprolite showing more pointy tooth-like structures.

 

The pieces I found were from Deltaichthyes albuloides. I don’t know if that particular fish is found in the Smokey Hill Chalk.

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Lori, I'm not so well-versed on these, but are you sure that specimens in the second picture / B are scales?

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

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15 hours ago, abyssunder said:

Lori, I'm not so well-versed on these, but are you sure that specimens in the second picture / B are scales?

No...just a guess. You thinking part of the skull? There is one peaking out of another specimen in this group as well, just not as exposed. I thought that might be a skull plate of some sort. I am not all that familiar with this formation. I had the opportunity to get a group from a single source, of which many had similar inclusions. I'm just trying to learn...and all of you are the best teachers! :D

 

Here is a micro image of the one from another coprolite. Once I get the remainder of the group, I might start trying to expose things a little more. I just hate to use destructive measures if I don't have to.

 

Marine-Coprolite-Spiral-Fish-Skull-Bones-Smoky-Hill-Chalk.jpg

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4 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

No...just a guess. You thinking part of the skull? There is one peaking out of another specimen in this group as well, just not as exposed. I thought that might be a skull plate of some sort. I am not all that familiar with this formation. I had the opportunity to get a group from a single source, of which many had similar inclusions. I'm just trying to learn...and all of you are the best teachers! :D

 

Here is a micro image of the one from another coprolite. Once I get the remainder of the group, I might start trying to expose things a little more. I just hate to use destructive measures if I don't have to.

No, my thought was on a totally different thing. More precisely, I put in consideration the possibility of juvenile? Baculites rugaptychi. Baculites lower jaws were found and described from the lower Campanian Smoky Hill Chalk Member, Niobrara Chalk, Logan County, Kansas. Here are some examples:

 

5a04dba3b6633_ActaGeologicaPolonicaDescriptionofthelowerjawsofBaculitesfromtheUpperCretaceousU.S.WesternInterior_1.thumb.jpg.e26415a43c2e3f8d099f838e69f2881b.jpg5a04db8c87d54_ActaGeologicaPolonicaDescriptionofthelowerjawsofBaculitesfromtheUpperCretaceousU.S.WesternInterior_3.thumb.jpg.d96e292821e87f34c04f4c3dfcbef73d.jpg

excerpt from N.L. Larson and  N.H. Landman. 2017. Description of the lower jaws of Baculites from the Upper Cretaceous U.S. Western Interior. Acta Geologica Polonica, 67 (1): 109–120.

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

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I think it could be that. :)

 

Flange.jpg.98392b4d3c29e205cd65f7781567b0a3.thumb.jpg.e34b973d25923f5c0743bb949188c5c2.jpg4.thumb.jpg.8995a05d0df52ad22973844e31f16dbd.jpg

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

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@abyssunder you are a rock star! Based on baculite jaw id, I found synchrotron X-ray microtomography imagery of their radula. I think I have been mistaking radula for small unusual fish bones. Here is some more imagery (with reference added) that I found online. I so love the weird and wonderful world of coprolite! I have to find a way to have these scans done.

F1.large.jpg

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You never know what can be in a coprolite. Good research, Lori! :)

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

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On 11/8/2017 at 7:31 PM, Ptychodus04 said:

The pieces I found were from Deltaichthyes albuloides. I don’t know if that particular fish is found in the Smokey Hill Chalk.

Do you happen to have photos of your pieces? I tried to do a search on this and got nothing. Well, I got one thing, but got a weird message when I tried to click on it. I contacted Mike Everhart with Oceans of Kansas. According to him, not much research has been done on the smaller fish.

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1 hour ago, GeschWhat said:

Do you happen to have photos of your pieces? I tried to do a search on this and got nothing. Well, I got one thing, but got a weird message when I tried to click on it. I contacted Mike Everhart with Oceans of Kansas. According to him, not much research has been done on the smaller fish.

 

I don’t have any photos (lost a bunch in a catastrophic hard drive failure) but I will try to run down to the Perot and see if I can find them in the collection. I donated a ton of stuff a decade ago and they were in the lot.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/11/2017 at 11:29 AM, Ptychodus04 said:

 

I don’t have any photos (lost a bunch in a catastrophic hard drive failure) but I will try to run down to the Perot and see if I can find them in the collection. I donated a ton of stuff a decade ago and they were in the lot.

Two words for you: cloud backups.

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