Mastodon Dung Fascinates Me

[MarkGelbart]

Anybody else here fascinated with mastodon dung?

Last week I read a 64 page chapter from an academic book entitled The Last Mastodons and the First Floridians.

Apparently, a great deal of mastodon dung has been recovered from the Aucilla River in Florida. Most dated to 12,000 radiocarbon years ago, but some dated to 20,000 and 30,000 rcb years ago. The geology of the river during the more arid Ice Age is interesting. Instead of a river, the river bed consisted of a chain of spring fed ponds separated by dry land. The scientists who studied this dung didn't mention this, but it's possible the mastodons actually created some of these ponds by digging down to the water table.

I'm fascinated with the ecological implications of the types of plants found in the dung, but my wife doesn't really want to discuss it with me, so I'm posting my thoughts here. The mastodons in Florida ate over 57 kinds of plants. Their most common foods were cypress twigs and cones along with buttonbush twigs, but they also ate many kinds of aquatic plants and fruits, including osage orange, wild squash, hazlenut, black haw, and sunflowers. Hazlenut, osage orange, and the species of wild squash they ate no longer naturally occur in Florida. Otherwise, all of the plant foods they ate are species that still exist in Florida today.

Because most of the food they eat is woody material, it's possible to find their intestinal contents within their skeletel material. If you happen to be lucky enough to find a mostly intact mastodon or mammoth specimen, look for the intestinal shaped woody material as well.

[Auspex]

Thanks, Mark; paleoecology really is my major fascination, and what ate what figures prominently!

[MikeD]

Some interesting info.

[ashcraft]

The osage orange is particularly interesting. It still exists today, but its range was greatly reduced when Europeans arrived. The best explanation is the large fruit (it is a relative of the breadfruit), which probably evolved to be eaten by the megafauna, and then have their seeds deposited with fertilizer as the beasts went about their business. When the Europeans arrived, there were no animals left that could eat the fruit and carry the seeds. Deer cannot even bite them, squirrels will eat them, but also eat the seeds, horses will still eat the fruit and deposit the seeds.

What saved the tree was that Native Americans started making bows out of it, it has tremendous energy storage, and rivals yew of England as the finest bow-wood in the world. Europeans found these trees growing around Native American campsites, where they had planted the seeds. The French named the tree "Boise de Arc", later Europeans conglomified the word to Bodark, which is still a common name in Western Missouri, Oklahoma, Northern Arkansas, where the name was further modified to Ozark, and what the area is commonly called today.

The tree was extensively planted as a fence by European settlers before 1920, and would rapidly attain what the settlers called "Bull Strong, Horse High, and Hog Tight", keeping the domestics where they belonged. It was widely planted particularly in the Great plains of Kansas, Missouri, etc., and may have lead to the serious decline of the Praire Chicken, by allowing large perching hawks, such as Redtails, to colonize the prairie

This is a lesson that I teach occassionally, the information comes from an article in Natural History and the Missouri Conservationist, among others.

Brent Ashcraft

[Auspex]

A lovely lesson; thanks Brent!

There are still some in the western exurbs of N. Va.; the best place to look for shrike larders!

[Angus Stydens]

The osage orange is particularly interesting. It still exists today, but its range was greatly reduced when Europeans arrived. The best explanation is the large fruit (it is a relative of the breadfruit), which probably evolved to be eaten by the megafauna, and then have their seeds deposited with fertilizer as the beasts went about their business. When the Europeans arrived, there were no animals left that could eat the fruit and carry the seeds. Deer cannot even bite them, squirrels will eat them, but also eat the seeds, horses will still eat the fruit and deposit the seeds.

What saved the tree was that Native Americans started making bows out of it, it has tremendous energy storage, and rivals yew of England as the finest bow-wood in the world. Europeans found these trees growing around Native American campsites, where they had planted the seeds. The French named the tree "Boise de Arc", later Europeans conglomified the word to Bodark, which is still a common name in Western Missouri, Oklahoma, Northern Arkansas, where the name was further modified to Ozark, and what the area is commonly called today.

The tree was extensively planted as a fence by European settlers before 1920, and would rapidly attain what the settlers called "Bull Strong, Horse High, and Hog Tight", keeping the domestics where they belonged. It was widely planted particularly in the Great plains of Kansas, Missouri, etc., and may have lead to the serious decline of the Praire Chicken, by allowing large perching hawks, such as Redtails, to colonize the prairie

This is a lesson that I teach occassionally, the information comes from an article in Natural History and the Missouri Conservationist, among others.

Brent Ashcraft

Wow, fascinating information, Brent. I really like learning interesting facts like these.

[brachiomyback]

Very interesting topic.... in addition to expanding my knowledge on two additional items

Didn't know what an osage orange was till I googled it.

I used to come across those once in a blue moon in my youth when I went morel hunting with my dad in Illinois.

That was one of the few trees that he couldn't ID for me. FYI... the American Elm trees (Ulmus americana) produce greater numbers of morels per tree than any other type of tree (general consensus amongst other morel hunters and of course my dad).

and in addition to Auspex reference to the shrike larder.... fascinating bird

- Brad

[Phoenixflood]

ah dangit, I actually learned something today

No, really I am glad you brought up this topic. It has shown potential for conversation and I have learned some amazing facts.

So is this dung fossilized???

[ashcraft]

Maybe, but I suspect it is in crappy condition.

[Ramo]

Here is some Osage Orange I didn't get much of a chance to hunt with last fall, but hopefully I will here in a few months.

[brachiomyback]

Here is some Osage Orange I didn't get much of a chance to hunt with last fall, but hopefully I will here in a few months.

I was just wondering if you crafted any with that material......

Want game you hunt because have a pack of rogue squirrels back here nabbing all of my tomatoes.

And a nice corner on my deck for your to put up a squirrel stand..... practice makes perfect;)

Very Nice Workmanship

- Brad

[lordpiney]

The osage orange is particularly interesting. It still exists today, but its range was greatly reduced when Europeans arrived. The best explanation is the large fruit (it is a relative of the breadfruit), which probably evolved to be eaten by the megafauna, and then have their seeds deposited with fertilizer as the beasts went about their business. When the Europeans arrived, there were no animals left that could eat the fruit and carry the seeds. Deer cannot even bite them, squirrels will eat them, but also eat the seeds, horses will still eat the fruit and deposit the seeds.

What saved the tree was that Native Americans started making bows out of it, it has tremendous energy storage, and rivals yew of England as the finest bow-wood in the world. Europeans found these trees growing around Native American campsites, where they had planted the seeds. The French named the tree "Boise de Arc", later Europeans conglomified the word to Bodark, which is still a common name in Western Missouri, Oklahoma, Northern Arkansas, where the name was further modified to Ozark, and what the area is commonly called today.

The tree was extensively planted as a fence by European settlers before 1920, and would rapidly attain what the settlers called "Bull Strong, Horse High, and Hog Tight", keeping the domestics where they belonged. It was widely planted particularly in the Great plains of Kansas, Missouri, etc., and may have lead to the serious decline of the Praire Chicken, by allowing large perching hawks, such as Redtails, to colonize the prairie

This is a lesson that I teach occassionally, the information comes from an article in Natural History and the Missouri Conservationist, among others.

Brent Ashcraft

thank you brent...that was an excellent learning tool. i use osage orange for making lure bodies on some of my plugs. it is a great choice for lure making due to it's specific density in h2o, and it's toughness in holding up to multiple fish strikes...especially bluefish bites.

[AeroMike]

The osage orange is particularly interesting. It still exists today, but its range was greatly reduced when Europeans arrived. The best explanation is the large fruit (it is a relative of the breadfruit), which probably evolved to be eaten by the megafauna, and then have their seeds deposited with fertilizer as the beasts went about their business. When the Europeans arrived, there were no animals left that could eat the fruit and carry the seeds. Deer cannot even bite them, squirrels will eat them, but also eat the seeds, horses will still eat the fruit and deposit the seeds.

What saved the tree was that Native Americans started making bows out of it, it has tremendous energy storage, and rivals yew of England as the finest bow-wood in the world. Europeans found these trees growing around Native American campsites, where they had planted the seeds. The French named the tree "Boise de Arc", later Europeans conglomified the word to Bodark, which is still a common name in Western Missouri, Oklahoma, Northern Arkansas, where the name was further modified to Ozark, and what the area is commonly called today.

The tree was extensively planted as a fence by European settlers before 1920, and would rapidly attain what the settlers called "Bull Strong, Horse High, and Hog Tight", keeping the domestics where they belonged. It was widely planted particularly in the Great plains of Kansas, Missouri, etc., and may have lead to the serious decline of the Praire Chicken, by allowing large perching hawks, such as Redtails, to colonize the prairie

This is a lesson that I teach occassionally, the information comes from an article in Natural History and the Missouri Conservationist, among others.

Brent Ashcraft

Brent, my wife and I used to go out driving looking for Osage Orange tree fruit also known as hedge apples. We would gather the ones that had jsut fallen off thetree and place these in the garage and in the basement of our house. I don't know why but as the fruit rots (no spell at all) spiders and mice will get the heck out of there. So these were great to get rid of spiders and mice in the house or where ever.

[Auspex]

I have a handful of Oligocene carnivore coprolites that I acquired with the idea of subjecting them to a microscope, in the hope of IDing some of the contents. Another project on the back burner, awaiting times of leisure <sigh>.

[MarkGelbart]

It was widely planted particularly in the Great plains of Kansas, Missouri, etc., and may have lead to the serious decline of the Praire Chicken, by allowing large perching hawks, such as Redtails, to colonize the prairie

I think human hunting and agricultural practices were more detrimental to prairie chicken populations than any natural predators.

Prairie chickens had an expanded range during the Pleistocene--fossil specimens have been recovered from Georgia and Florida.

[MarkGelbart]

So is this dung fossilized???

I don't think so. The scientists say it looks like chopped straw.

[ashcraft]

It was widely planted particularly in the Great plains of Kansas, Missouri, etc., and may have lead to the serious decline of the Praire Chicken, by allowing large perching hawks, such as Redtails, to colonize the prairie

I think human hunting and agricultural practices were more detrimental to prairie chicken populations than any natural predators.

Prairie chickens had an expanded range during the Pleistocene--fossil specimens have been recovered from Georgia and Florida.

I agree with the ag practices part, hunting , don't know, was it a market bird? I believe you are incorrect about the redtail, it is not a natural predator, and its method of hunting by perching and then pouncing down on the prey, is foreign to the prairie chicken. As I understand it, prairie chickens look ahead for danger, such as from coyotes and prairie hawks, which soar. They don't look up, making them easy prey for a hawk. If one hawk eats one chicken a day, and thousands of hawks move onto the prairie, you can see it can make for a serious dent in the population.

Brent Ashcraft

[Ron E.]

The best explanation is the large fruit (it is a relative of the breadfruit), which probably evolved to be eaten by the megafauna, and then have their seeds deposited with fertilizer as the beasts went about their business.

Got roaches? Cut one of these in half and place it in the back of the cabinet. They will dry up odorlessly (the fruit, and maybe the roaches too!)

[Auspex]

I agree with the ag practices part, hunting , don't know, was it a market bird? I believe you are incorrect about the redtail, it is not a natural predator, and its method of hunting by perching and then pouncing down on the prey, is foreign to the prairie chicken. As I understand it, prairie chickens look ahead for danger, such as from coyotes and prairie hawks, which soar. They don't look up, making them easy prey for a hawk. If one hawk eats one chicken a day, and thousands of hawks move onto the prairie, you can see it can make for a serious dent in the population.

Brent Ashcraft

Yeah, adding perches to the prairie had some unintended ecological consequences. The Red Tailed Hawk populations expanded (though the detriment to Prairie Chicken populations was more acute once their numbers were knocked-down by the advent of row crops), while the Ferruginous Hawks (small mammal eaters) retreated ahead of the plows. Grassland nesting passerines were also pressed, by the nest-parasitic Brown-headed Cowbirds because the perches offered vantage points for the female Cowbirds to discover nesting activity and leave eggs in more nests.

[sparkchaser]

Wow. Lots of great information in this thread.

I was surprised to learn anything eats an Osage Orange.

[Ron E.]

Wow. Lots of great information in this thread.

I was surprised to learn anything eats an Osage Orange.

Or, as I grew up calling them (we had a tree in the yard of my boyhood home), bodark apples.

And, FWIW, the most fascinating thing I learned here was that MarkGelbart is passionate about extinct pachyderm poop.

[Traviscounty]

Or, as I grew up calling them (we had a tree in the yard of my boyhood home), bodark apples.

And, FWIW, the most fascinating thing I learned here was that MarkGelbart is passionate about extinct pachyderm poop.

The Osage Orange is the same species as the Bois D'arc. We called them horse apples in E.Texas. It's just apples and oranges.

Definitely good bow making material.

[Ramo]

We still have a lot of prairie chickens in parts of Kansas that don't have much agriculture land. At my new place in central Kansas I was seeing flocks of 5-15 birds almost every evening and morning, until summer got here, and I haven't seen one in while now. I'm sure they are around, but just not flocked up yet. (I have can't hardly hit them with a shotgun, so my piece of osage isn't going to hurt their population)

[micropterus101]

I am partial to crab poop myself. So far I have not found it, but I happen upon some fossilized shrimp poop now and then.

[MikeD]

As a kid in central Kentucky, I learned to call them hedge apples. I was in a store one day and saw this among the fake fruit. Couldn't resist. Can you believe somebody would make fake ones?