doushantuo Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Nimravis asked me about these originally since he knew I was from Texas, but I am just learning ID. He told me that he inherited a number of fossils including these ammonites from an older fossil hunting buddy he use to collect with years ago. The man had family who lived in Denton area. He would go fossil hunting when he went to visit. He did mention Roanoke. Roanote must have been a type-o. @bone2stone aren't the scaphites shells all kind of g shaped or gyrocone in nature? The one on the left looks like it may have an advolute or convolute shell, but the one on the right looks definitely to be convolute. I will take a look at Lance Hall's page again. I referred Nimravis to his site. I looked there, but didn't see anything that quite fit, but maybe I need to take another look. I need to get me a good Texas ammonite reference book, but they are so expensive. One of them is listed for $375 on Amazon right now! If anyone has one they are willing to part with I'd be more than happy to take it off their hands. @Bobby Rico I can't say that I have seen any malachite here in Texas. Copper of any nature isn't something you see in the places I have been hunting, but my hunting has been pretty limited to the lower cretaceous. I thought it looked like a fibrous material, like dried algae, but it looked to bright to be that. Pictures are hard to tell sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 8 hours ago, KimTexan said: @bone2stone I need to get me a good Texas ammonite reference book, but they are so expensive. One of them is listed for $375 on Amazon right now! If anyone has one they are willing to part with I'd be more than happy to take it off their hands. @Bobby Rico That is way too much for that book. It was published by the Paleontology Section of the Houston Gem and Mineral Society. Maybe they can still provide them. I forget where I got mine. The images are not great but they provide a lot of identification details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, BobWill said: That is way too much for that book. It was published by the Paleontology Section of the Houston Gem and Mineral Society. Maybe they can still provide them. I forget where I got mine. The images are not great but they provide a lot of identification details. Oh I know it’s too much. There’s no way I could afford to spend that kind of money on a reference book. I’m a single mom. Do you know of any good online digital resources? Google and other places take books that their copyrights have expired and often proved them for free. It seems like a lot of the fossil books are older. More of them should be made available digitally like that. I have a few fossil books like that, but haven’t come across one for Texas ammonites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Anything by Landman,Cobban and/or the late great Kennedy might help you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 19 hours ago, bone2stone said: The green is most likely remnants of the backing these specimens were once glued to. To the best of my knowledge these were never glued onto anything- and I have had them in a small case for about 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Nimravis said: To the best of my knowledge these were never glued onto anything- and I have had them in a small case for about 20 years. Well from your original post, it seems as if you acquired these and did not find them. I have seen people glue fossils and or arrowheads onto the green cloth used to cover pool tables. Try picking it off. it would not hurt. I can say for sure though it is not malachite. I also still believe the smooth one is a scaphite with the housing chamber missing. I have found several different specie of nanno cephs in the Del Rio, Paw Paw and to some degree in the Grayson and Main street.(Lower Cretaceous) The ones you have appear to be from the Paw Paw strictly because of the preservation. The ones from the Del Rio and Grayson oxidize away easily and turn to dust if not treated properly. I only have about 200 of them left now. I have been giving them away for years. John J gifted me some nanno ammonites from the Eagleford (Upper Cretaceous) from near San Antonio that I had not found/seen before. I'll see about dragging out that case and post some of them and some other tinys as well in a different post. I will title it tiny ammonites as well. Jess B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 @Nimravis, after some perusal, I am liking Mortoniceras (Angolaites) drakei (formerly Drakeoceras wintoni). Some nice examples can be found in... Ammonites from the Weno limestone (Albian) in northeast Texas ...from the AMNH Library Digital Repository. 2 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Knowing source formation is imperative in this sleuthing exercise. I’ve taken pyritized micromorphs in the Duck Creek, Weno, Pawpaw, Grayson/Del Rio, and Eagle Ford for certain, and perhaps the Fort Worth as well. Allow me to retract my kneejerk Kdc/Kfw reference to Roanoke...I had wires crossed with Rhome. I’m on the Kpp/Kwe bandwagon on this one. 2 Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Some access to this... The Arestoceratinae van Hoepen, 1942: A resurrected subfamily of late Albian brancoceratid ammonites, with description of a new genus ...would be swell. 1 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, PFOOLEY said: @Nimravis, after some perusal, I am liking Mortoniceras (Angolaites) drakei (formerly Drakeoceras wintoni). Some nice examples can be found in... Ammonites from the Weno limestone (Albian) in northeast Texas ...from the AMNH Library Digital Repository. They look exactly like those examples- Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 @Nimravis, here is another example... Mortoniceras (Drakeoceras) sp. ...From the Cretaceous cephalopods gallery of the Sam Noble Museum. 3 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 10 hours ago, PFOOLEY said: @Nimravis, here is another example... Mortoniceras (Drakeoceras) sp. ...From the Cretaceous cephalopods gallery of the Sam Noble Museum. Do we know the full name of this Mort? It is certainly the right size. I might go along with Nimravis' fossil being some species of Mortoniceras but most of them, including D. wintoni are far to large. The only one I can find anything on that could be small enough is Mortoniceras sp. aff. ootatoorensis (Stoliczka); Adkins, 1928. Does anyone have more information on this species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I think it might be figured by Blanford & Stoliczka in their serial monograph(s) on the Cretaceous of India (not available and/or (still??)paywalled??) The pelecypod and gastropod volumes are available,but that's of no use here His species might be scattered all over miscellaneous mantelloceratids,Calycoceras,Schloenbachia,Acanthoceras Or even reassigned as serpulids???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 11/20/2017 at 8:07 AM, PFOOLEY said: Some access to this... The Arestoceratinae van Hoepen, 1942: A resurrected subfamily of late Albian brancoceratid ammonites, with description of a new genus ...would be swell. Shamone!... ...I got it! The Arestoceratinae van Hoepen, 1942 A resurrected subfamily of late Albian brancoceratid ammonites, with description of a new genus (Cooper2017).pdf I have not read it yet but will leave it here for you. 2 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 This is interesting... "Genus Conlinites Kennedy, 2004 Type species: C. wrighti Kennedy, 2004; by original designation. Diagnosis. Micromorph, with fastigiate keeled venter and com- pressed subtrapezoidal to sublanceolate whorl section; compressed forms with indistinct flexuous ribs forming oblique ventrolateral clavi; inflated forms with ribs arising singly or in pairs from tiny umbilical bullae and terminating in conical to feebly-clavate ventrolateral tubercles; spiral striations lacking; adult peristome unknown. Remarks. Conlinites is endemic to the rostrata Zone of the American Province (Texas). It differs from Cainoceras in its very small size, fastigiate venter and sparse flank costae. Morphology and bioge- ography suggest it is probably a paedomorphic derivative of Dra- keoceras (Kennedy, 2004)." -from Cooper, M.R., 2017 1 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Ammonites from the Pawpaw Shale (Upper Albian) in northeast Texas W.J.Kennedy Abstract The lower part of the Pawpaw Shale in northeast Texas yields an abundance of diminutive limonitic ammonites, the assemblage being: Tetragonites sp. juv., Engonoceras serpentinum (Cragin, 1900), Conlinites wrighti gen. et sp. nov., Cantabrigites wenoensis (Adkins, 1920), Neophlycticeras (Neophlycticeras) sp., Neophlycticeras (Paradolphia) occidentalis sp. nov., Stoliczkaia (Stoliczkaia) clavigera Neumayr, 1875, Stoliczkaia (Lamnayella) worthense (Adkins, 1920), Stoliczkaia (Shumarinaia) asiatica Matsumoto and Inoma, 1975, Enigmaticeras riceae gen. et sp. nov., Flickia simplex Pervinquière, 1907, Ficheuria pernoni Dubourdieu, 1953, Ficheuria americana sp. nov., Anisoceras armatum (J. Sowerby, 1817), Hamites venetzianus Pictet, 1847, Mariella (Mariella) worthensis (Adkins and Winton, 1920), Mariella (Mariella) asper sp. nov., Lechites (Lechites) comanchensis (Adkins, 1920), Worthoceras worthense (Adkins, 1920), and Scaphites hilli Adkins and Winton, 1920. This assemblage is correlated with the Mortoniceras (Subschloenbachia) rostratum Subzone of the European sequence on the basis of the occurrence of that species in the underlying Weno Limestone, in the passage beds between the Pawpaw Shale and the succeeding Main Street Limestone, and the lower part of the Main Street. Some previous authors have interpreted the diminutive limonitic ammonites of the Pawpaw as being “dwarf” or “stunted”. The overwhelming majority of individuals are nuclei of much larger ammonites, with smaller numbers of adults of small species that occur in other facies and geographic locations, together with a smaller number still of paedomorphic dwarfs. The fauna is interpreted as a preservational one, where diagenetic pyrite formed in relatively small voids, either the early phragmocone chambers of larger ammonites, or the phragmocone and body chambers of genuinely diminutive species which oxidised to limonite during the weathering process. 4 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 This looks interesting, paedomorphic dwarfs, diagenetic pyrite, stunted. If anyone has access please look for something with the right whorl profile in this paper. The Cooper paper has some Drakeoceras species but nothing that matches the right shape or size unless I missed something but I think you're narrowing the search PFOOLEY. edit: I remember reading something about sexual dimorphism involving macroconches and microconches but don't remember how much difference in size there can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 @BobWill, in that Cooper paper, take a look at the Conlinites wrighti examples...I like this idea as an i.d. for Nimravus' specimens and am hoping to get my hands on Kennedy, 2004 for confirmation. 2 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 PFOOLEY That was the only one small enough I saw in that paper but I missed seeing your mention of it in the previous post. I was still looking for a Drakeoceras small enough. The description sure looks spot-on. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 **"makowski",he says** Most often quoted Odds are it's in Fruitbat's Library(PP has been free access for years) In 1904 R. Lasswitz described a collection of Cretaceous ammonites from Texas, most of which were collected in 1846 by Ferdinand Roemer. Apart from the historical value of the collection, Lasswitz described several new species, which also makes the collection important from a taxonomic point of view. According to Lasswitz, in his plate descriptions, all the original (figured) specimens of the (Roemer) collection were housed in the “Königlich Geologisches Museum” in Breslau. Adkins (1928) in his Handbook of Texas Cretaceous Fossils referred to the collection at “University of Breslau” and figured several specimens that he had photographed prior to 1928. He also made casts of some of the specimens (see, e.g., Young, 1979, p. 52). OF COURSE the Lasswitz is still paywalled(Doushantuo's Law in action) Anyone with Hathi Trust access might get to it a critical note:anyone using an Owen geodynamic Cretaceous reconstruction from 1983 is ..... form Dutta et al(2017): repost: 2015_Klug_posted_SexualDimorphism_7.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/14/2017 at 6:01 AM, doushantuo said: Might be Stoliczkaia(Lamnayella) worthense image taken from Kennedy, 1994 @Nimravis, my final answer ... ...Conlinites wrighti gen. et sp. nov. ... ...image taken from Kennedy, 2004. 1 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Thanks to everyone for the help on this ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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