Shamalama Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Here are a couple of "old" pieces from St. Clair that I found. The first one is a faint trace that I think is Pectopteris but I find it so rarely at St. Clair I can't tell for sure. What is throwing me off is that the leaflets are getting longer as they progress along the rachis whereas I have always thought that Pectopteris had a consistent leaflet length along the whole leaf. Then the second piece is a cluster of leaves/leaflets that don't match anything I've seen before. The tips of the leaves are not pointed enough for Alethopteris and not wide enough for Neuropteris. Any suggestions are appreciated. -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 They are so beautiful! The obvious and only contribution I can make. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Hey Dave, great finds! The first one reminds me of Lyginopteris. Maybe @fiddlehead or @fossilcrazy @docdutronc @paleoflor will chime in. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I'm no great authority on plants, but I do know that I have a Permian Pecopteris frond that fits the description: 3 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil-Hound Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Very nice ferns. It's a shame St. Clair is now closed to the public. Do or do not. There is no try. - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I agree that the first one is quite a find. And till now unreported as far as I know from the St Clair area. I believe the second one, which was poorly preserved and only appears more interesting than I believe it to be. Based on the lack of even a crease to show any midveins in the pinnules, leads me to believe they did not have any. The only genus which lacks a midvein is Odontopteris. And the only species of Odontopteris reported at St. Clair is O. subcuneata. I don't know that this species is that "common" there but since O. subcuneata is a polymorphic form Macroneuropteris scheuchzerii and it is a common element in this flora, so it should be readily found there. The other features that can be made out also help confirm the taxon. The first one is very rare even where it is known to exist. So much so it is only described on fertile foliage and only one example of sterile foliage is known to exist. It is called Stellatheca ornata and you have a fertile example. A brief description; The ultimate and penultimate rachis appears wide (though partially due to pinnules being slightly confluent) Each pinnule typically has three sori, but can range from two to five, and are placed near the margin. And the pinnules are generally no more than rounded lobes. Attached is a picture of a Mazon Creek example. Hope this helps, Jack 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 11 hours ago, fiddlehead said: I agree that the first one is quite a find. And till now unreported as far as I know from the St Clair area. I believe the second one, which was poorly preserved and only appears more interesting than I believe it to be. Based on the lack of even a crease to show any midveins in the pinnules, leads me to believe they did not have any. The only genus which lacks a midvein is Odontopteris. And the only species of Odontopteris reported at St. Clair is O. subcuneata. I don't know that this species is that "common" there but since O. subcuneata is a polymorphic form Macroneuropteris scheuchzerii and it is a common element in this flora, so it should be readily found there. The other features that can be made out also help confirm the taxon. The first one is very rare even where it is known to exist. So much so it is only described on fertile foliage and only one example of sterile foliage is known to exist. It is called Stellatheca ornata and you have a fertile example. A brief description; The ultimate and penultimate rachis appears wide (though partially due to pinnules being slightly confluent) Each pinnule typically has three sori, but can range from two to five, and are placed near the margin. And the pinnules are generally no more than rounded lobes. Attached is a picture of a Mazon Creek example. Hope this helps, Jack Jack, Thanks so much for the ID assistance. I looked up pictures for Odontopteris and it does seem like the second set of pictures matches that. The Stellatheca ornata is a really cool find and your example looks to be right on the money. The thicker rachis with shallow pinnules really sets it apart from anything else I have found from St. Clair. Even old finds can yield something new! 1 -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hashemdbouk Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 11/19/2017 at 6:52 PM, Fossil-Hound said: Very nice ferns. It's a shame St. Clair is now closed to the public. is it closed to the public? why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 6:26 PM, hashemdbouk said: is it closed to the public? why? St. Clair has been closed to collecting by the land owners - Reading Anthracite, since July of 2015. It is patrolled by private security, and people are/have been being arrested and charged with Criminal Trespass. They only allow school groups to collect, and you need written permission from Reading Anthracite office to go there. Regards, 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil-Hound Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 4:26 PM, hashemdbouk said: is it closed to the public? why? Yes it is. Talk to Reading Anthracite. Do or do not. There is no try. - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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