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Douglas Pass Mystery


mdpaulhus

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I have another Douglas Pass mystery.  I kept all the pieces that I could find not knowing what it was.  I am really confused as this does not look like plant material to me.  It almost looks scaly like a fish or lizard, but I can't really identify any parts that would lead me in any direction that would really suggest that  .  Interested in any info or speculation.  Thanks

A01.jpg

A02.jpg

a3.jpg

a4.jpg

a6.jpg

a7.jpg

 

Oh.  And this as about 6" long

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While I am here.  Thought I would attach a few photos of insects collected at the same time.  

B01.jpg

 

 

B02.jpg

 

 

B03.jpg

 

 

B06.jpg

 

 

Bo4.jpg

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It really looks like Icarosaurus or related, but I'm unsure in the ID. Very interesting specimen! :)

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

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It wouldn't be an Icarosaurus which is known by a single individual collected from the Triassic Lockatong Formation in North Bergen, New Jersey. Douglas Pass is an Eocene site. That fossil does look like a very odd looking creature- I wouldn't venture to guess what. 

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Maybe a bryozoan? 

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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45 minutes ago, Jeffrey P said:

It wouldn't be an Icarosaurus which is known by a single individual collected from the Triassic Lockatong Formation in North Bergen, New Jersey. Douglas Pass is an Eocene site. That fossil does look like a very odd looking creature- I wouldn't venture to guess what. 

Why, Icarosaurus was not a reptile?

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

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44 minutes ago, piranha said:

Microbially induced sedimentary structures (MISS)

 

 

Here is an excellent paper on Green River microbial mats:

 

Schieber, J. (2007)

Benthic microbial mats as an oil shale component: Green River Formation (Eocene) of Wyoming and Utah.

In: Schieber, J., et al. (eds.) 

Atlas of Microbial Mat Features Preserved within the Siliciclastic Rock Record.

Elsevier Scientific Publishing, 311 pp.   PDF LINK

 

"The lacustrine Green River Formation (Eocene) of Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado (Figure 7(j)-1) is best known for its fish fossils and its oil shales (Bradley, 1964; Surdam and Stanley, 1979; Roehler, 1990; Russel, 1990; Ferber and Wells, 1995). It contains extensive horizons of carbonaceous shale (Figure 7(j)-2) with high contents of organic matter and kerogen, and is considered one of the largest oil shale deposits of the world (Tuttle, 1991). In most publications the organic matter is presumed to have originated from planktonic organisms (Bradley, 1964), yet the possibility of benthic microbial mats has been considered (Smoot, 1983; Schieber, 1999). The lakes in which the Green River Formation accumulated were, at times quite shallow (Surdam and Wolfbauer, 1975; Bohacs et al., 2000) and it is therefore conceivable that at certain periods portions of the lake bottoms were colonised by photosynthetic or non-photosynthetic microbial mats."

image.png.a84de26dad44fb03836a743755df237c.png

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I would say reptile. Small gecko, lizard - what so ever. You will need to show it to a specialist.

Hope you was also able to save the other side.

Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC).

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5 hours ago, oilshale said:

I would say reptile. Small gecko, lizard - what so ever. You will need to show it to a specialist.

Hope you was also able to save the other side.

Bones ?

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57 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Bones ?

 

I've got a fish (Eohiodon sp.??) from the Bonanza leaf site in Utah - no bones preserved at all. Just a shadow - not even a slight depression to see.
Sorry, the pictures are really poor.

 

5a1bdb450ed9e_Ch660EohiodonspMittlEoznBonanzaLeafSiteUSAfossilfishCh660.jpg.fce2bf8111fb09c5f87276f2516cc5de.jpg

 

Another unknown fish from the same location (not mine). No bones visible

5a1bdf1c7a6a0_Bonanzafish.JPG.aedbeab28c662ab50a2ad439b61d69da.JPG

Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC).

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13 minutes ago, oilshale said:

 no bones preserved at all.

Their shadow still identifies them well enough for you to call it a fish though. Wouldn't they do the same through such a thin skin as would be seen here ?

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29 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Their shadow still identifies them well enough for you to call it a fish though. Wouldn't they do the same through such a thin skin as would be seen here ?

 

The whateveritis is not fully exposed. Tail is to the left, head to the right.

I think the second picture shows the left forearm (with some faint nails visible) and the third picture shows a fragmentary part of the right hind leg. 

Thomas

Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC).

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Hey @oilshale I don’t think Eohiodon is a valid tax on anymore, I thought it had been decided (I don’t know where, I don’t have my references) that they were similar enough to hiodon to warrant their absorption into it.

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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I'm in the fish camp.

Nice pieces, you're lucky.:dinothumb:

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"On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

"We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes."

 

In memory of Doren

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10 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

Hey @oilshale I don’t think Eohiodon is a valid tax on anymore, I thought it had been decided (I don’t know where, I don’t have my references) that they were similar enough to hiodon to warrant their absorption into it.

 

Thanks @WhodamanHD you are right - Lance Grande and Eric Hilton mentioned in their paper   "Fossil Mooneyes (Teleostei: Hiodontiformes, Hiodontidae) from the Eocene of western North America, with reassessment of their taxonomy. Geological Society, London, Special Publications, 295, 221-251, 2 June 2008, https://doi.org/10.1144/SP295.13 :

"After correcting the descriptions of the fossil taxa, we could find no valid synapomorphies to separate the genus †Eohiodon from the genus Hiodon. Therefore, we conclude that †Eohiodon should be regarded as a synonym of Hiodon." So Hiodon and not Eohiodon.
Thomas

Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC).

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I think it's beautiful. 

I so hope it's a fish and not a bryozoan or a microbial mat. 

But lovely find, whichever. 

Life's Good!

Tortoise Friend.

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I definitely think that's a lizard. I've attached a paper showing very similar lizard skin in that formation. And I know of another that I am still looking for. At least in the one I am hunting there are NO bones evident in the fossil. Yours could be an extremely rare and important find!

 

Green Skin.pdf

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I agree with it being a lizard. Maybe more than one critter there.

Looks like it could benefit from a (professional) preparation job.

Wonderful find!!

Nice insects too.

Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys."

Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough."

 

My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection

My favorite thread on TFF.

 

 

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Yep! Nice one! So it's a reptile. :)

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

My Library

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I've contacted Lance Grande - that's what he said: 

"It is definitely a lizard. Hard to say what kind, though, based on a partial skin. I know bones do not normally preserve at this particular locality of the GRF, but this could also possibly be a shed skin."

Thomas

Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC).

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