Cam28 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Realized this while talking to a buddy who doesn't know much about FL fossils, since (almost) everyone can agree Cosmopolitodus/Carcharodon hastalis was much more related (I mean ancestral) to the modern great white rather than modern mako's, shouldn't we be calling them "white sharks" instead of "mako's"? By not saying "great" imo you clearly don't mean Carcharodon carcharias & iirc paleontologists only though they were ancestors of modern mako's because they had no serrations.. sorry if this is a rhetorical question, but I couldn't hold it in any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cam28 said: shouldn't we be calling them "white sharks" instead of "mako's"? Yes- Broad tooth white shark. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrophyseter Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 You might as well ask why we call Carcharias taurus the sand "tiger shark"/grey "nurse shark" or Caperea marginata the pygmy "right whale" or Smilodon the saber-toothed "tiger". When a common name is created, it has a tendancy to stick on, even if users acknowledge its inaccuracy. However, if there is enough effort, common names can change- this has happened with the orca; it took quite some international effort to change the common name from killer whale to it, and some people continue to attempt effort to internationalize the european name of the sperm whale "cachalot". In fact, many scientists and people have started to use the term "broad tooth white shark", but I personally prefer to use "mako" and state its inaccuracy at the same time. If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I say "hastalis (the shark or tooth formerly known as a mako)". Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I second @SailingAlongToo Except a little less prince-esque, I call’em hastilises (hastilisae? Hastilisti? Insert plural form here) “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I think most causal collectors, general public, media etc are going to have difficulty in changing since mako is so ingrained in everything. Outside the forum if you say white shark and everyone will be thinking great white. It's just the way it is with name changes. Over time it may change especially if shows on TV start using it. The same is true in the Dinosaur world when a paper came out and declared Troodon as dubious species and should be referred to as Stenonychosaurus. Change takes place slowely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, Troodon said: I think most causal collectors, general public, media etc are going to have difficulty in changing since mako is so ingrained in everything. Outside the forum if you say white shark and everyone will be thinking great white. It's just the way it is with name changes. Over time it may change especially if shows on TV start using it. The same is true in the Dinosaur world when a paper came out and declared Troodon as dubious species and should be referred to as Stenonychosaurus. Change takes place slowely. Like how Tyrannosaurus rex should be Manospondylus gigas... “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagebrush Steve Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 On 12/3/2017 at 9:07 AM, Troodon said: The same is true in the Dinosaur world when a paper came out and declared Troodon as dubious species and should be referred to as Stenonychosaurus. No, I don’t think you’re dubious at all. Going to change your name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, Sagebrush Steve said: No, I don’t think you’re dubious at all. Going to change your name? Heck no, One day it will change again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 On 12/2/2017 at 6:12 PM, Cam28 said: Realized this while talking to a buddy who doesn't know much about FL fossils, since (almost) everyone can agree Cosmopolitodus/Carcharodon hastalis was much more related (I mean ancestral) to the modern great white rather than modern mako's, shouldn't we be calling them "white sharks" instead of "mako's"? By not saying "great" imo you clearly don't mean Carcharodon carcharias & iirc paleontologists only though they were ancestors of modern mako's because they had no serrations.. sorry if this is a rhetorical question, but I couldn't hold it in any longer. I've seen a couple of people use "speartooth shark." It's pretty good since "hasta" comes from Latin for "spear" or spear-shaped. However, it's a little weird to give a common name to an extinct organism especially one no human has ever seen alive. Fishermen, divers, and amateur naturalists were the ones who gave sharks their common names. We've talked about "great whites" having other common names even just within the English language. I haven't seen any specific common name stick with hastalis over the years. We don't have a common name for T. rex. We use the species name as the quick-and-easy tag though there doesn't seem to be an easy, recognizable way to shorten "hastalis." Who wants to start calling them "hasties?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoppeHunting Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I agree that we should refrain from calling them Makos. Honestly, "Speartooth" sounds AWESOME, not to mention it makes sense (hasta-). I may just start using that! If not that, I propose "Even Greater White"! Haha The Hunt for the Hemipristine continues! ~Hoppe hunting!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I am not a big fan of common names and abbreviations for shark names when there is a more informative, less confusing Linean name(s) for these sharks. Having said that, what's wrong with "great white mako"? http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I always heard them called "broad tooth mako", so with the genus change shouldn't they be called "broad tooth white" shark? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 hours ago, ynot said: I always heard them called "broad tooth mako", so with the genus change shouldn't they be called "broad tooth white" shark? The hastilis tooth isn’t any broader than the great whites teeth, only called a broad toothed Mako because it’s broader than Isurus teeth “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam28 Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 19 hours ago, HoppeHunting said: I agree that we should refrain from calling them Makos. Honestly, "Speartooth" sounds AWESOME, not to mention it makes sense (hasta-). I may just start using that! If not that, I propose "Even Greater White"! Haha Unfortunately there's already a speartooth shark (rare one in Australia) but yeah it can be confusing as heck sometimes with the word "mako" thrown around even if they're in the same family, I'll mostly stick with Hastalis I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 39 minutes ago, Cam28 said: Unfortunately there's already a speartooth shark (rare one in Australia) but yeah it can be confusing as heck sometimes with the word "mako" thrown around even if they're in the same family, I'll mostly stick with Hastalis I suppose Since we have Great Whites, the hastalis could be the Lesser White. Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoppeHunting Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, SailingAlongToo said: Since we have Great Whites, the hastalis could be the Lesser White. Or since it's the GW's ancestor, it could be the Great Grandpa White! The Hunt for the Hemipristine continues! ~Hoppe hunting!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, HoppeHunting said: Or since it's the GW's ancestor, it could be the Great Grandpa White! Greater White? Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoppeHunting Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, SailingAlongToo said: Greater White? I suggested this earlier as a joke : 20 hours ago, HoppeHunting said: If not that, I propose "Even Greater White"! Haha but it actually would make sense. I'd say "Greater" over "Lesser" because I believe it was larger than the extant GW. Still, it sounds so similar to "Great White" that there would inevitably be a lot of confusion. The Hunt for the Hemipristine continues! ~Hoppe hunting!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Cam28 said: Unfortunately there's already a speartooth shark (rare one in Australia) but yeah it can be confusing as heck sometimes with the word "mako" thrown around even if they're in the same family, I'll mostly stick with Hastalis I suppose I didn’t know that shark had a common name, I just called it “glyphis” or “river shark”. Thanks for the info. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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