Daleksec Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Fellow fossil forum members I am in a predicament. I'm in need of air scribe and don't know what type I need to get. I have been working on Sea urchins from the Eastover Formation from Virginia that are concreated in hard sandstone with some of the Spines attached, and a sand dollar from the Piney Point formation with adhered matrix. These two things could be of scientific interest so I would like to prep them slightly so someone could actually see some diagnostic parts in order to give an identification. I Am looking to buy one that can do fine detail and not destroy the specimens but still remove the hard matrix relatively quick . I have already tried dental picks, Exacto knives, and even a dremel to remove the bulk matrix from the Sea Urchins but none have worked. I am looking for one that is under $500 and I have the air compresser already. Any suggestions are appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 There are several threads about this in the "preparation" sub forum. A search there should give You more information than You need. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 What ynot said. But removing hard matrix relatively quickly may be wishful thinking. Good luck. RB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daleksec Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 What about Chicago Pneumatic CP 9361 Industrial Scribe and Engraving Pen. Are they any good? My original plan was going to buy a scribe from paleotools but I don't have the funds to get one, and if I bought CP 9361 do I just buy the tip for it or is there a certain one I need. Or should I wait to buy a paleotool air scribe? Personally, I need to get these to a state where a paleontologist could identify them without them having to prep them their self. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Without seeing the fossils, I think it is safe to say that a Chicago style airscribe is going to be way to harsh for an echie w spines. If it were up to me I would say that air abrasive is the only way to go with this... and magnification either via OptiVisor, magnifying lamp or binocular microscope. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 and this just in from the front... depending on the matrix, I have heard that KOH (potassium hydroxide) can also be used. I have never tried it, even though I did get some a few years ago. Not easy, but if you search KOH on this site, it might give you some insight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterpillar Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 KOH is the best to prep echinoids in marl 2 http://www.paleotheque.fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daleksec Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 I will post pictures of them tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 I have a CP9361 and love it. It is great for removing bulk matrix but terrible if you have to get anywhere close to the fossil. It isn't as good as a Paleo Tools ME9100 but you can buy a new front end and stylus to basically turn it into an ME9100. You're going to want some good magnification also. 1 Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 You said you have used a Dremel, do you have the engraving tip set? I am not a pro by any means, but I have used the Dremel with the engraving set to get close on some of my echinoids. I haven’t had any with spines in place though, but I did get them clean enough for ID. After I got pretty close to the test I have taken the tip off the Dremel and used it with my hand rather than the Dremel. They’re pretty small to hold though, but it has done reasonably well. I definitely have to go low budget though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 26 minutes ago, KimTexan said: I have taken the tip off the Dremel and used it with my hand rather than the Dremel. They’re pretty small to hold though, but it has done reasonably well. Excellent idea @KimTexan! I’ve never thought of that but will be something I’ll employ in the future if warranted. You can get pin vices (vises for you guys over the pond ) that would take Dremel bits I’m sure. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daleksec Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Piney Point formation Sand Dollar glued together with PaleoBond Penetrant Stabilizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daleksec Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Sea urchin #1 from the Eastover Formation Sea urchin #2 Eastover Formation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daleksec Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Sea urchin #3 Eastover Formation Sorry, the photos are dark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 12/4/2017 at 5:45 PM, Daleksec said: These two things could be of scientific interest so I would like to prep them slightly so someone could actually see some diagnostic parts in order to give an identification. Any suggestions are appreciated. I agree that these specimens might be of interest to a paleontologist. If you are thinking about donating them, I would recommend not prepping them yourself. Most museums would do a much better job of prepping without damaging the specimens than the average person could do. I’m not aware of any published accounts of echinoids from the Eastover Formation so these could be the first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I agree with JPC that air abrasion is the only way to prep these without damaging them. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daleksec Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Any Ideas on who would like to look at them, to my knowledge, there is no one in Virginia that does sea urchins. Including the Smithsonian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 @sixgill pete Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 @MarcoSr Know any resources that can help Trevor or at least point him in right direction? Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 @Daleksec @SailingAlongToo As far as prepping, I do my own using dental picks and tools along with sewing needles. I use my scope and my computer screen to see up close. very time consuming and it does not always remove all the matrix. If these were from the Paleogene I would suggest getting in touch with Adam Osborne, but I really have no contacts for Neogene echinoderms. There must be someone at the Smithsonian I would think. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, sixgill pete said: @Daleksec @SailingAlongToo As far as prepping, I do my own using dental picks and tools along with sewing needles. I use my scope and my computer screen to see up close. very time consuming and it does not always remove all the matrix. If these were from the Paleogene I would suggest getting in touch with Adam Osborne, but I really have no contacts for Neogene echinoderms. There must be someone at the Smithsonian I would think. Thanks Don. Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 @MikeR Any suggestions on how to prep and anyone knowledgeable to help Trevor with ID? Thanks. Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 hour ago, SailingAlongToo said: @MarcoSr Know any resources that can help Trevor or at least point him in right direction? You might try contacting (from his website): Bill Thompson - Echinoid Collector Echinoids.com 1575 IH-10 W Seguin, Texas 78155512-665-4252 mobile He recently published (2016) a 414 page book on Texas echinoids that you can order here: http://www.echinoids.com/ He might be able to point you to a researcher. Marco Sr. 3 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 21 hours ago, MarcoSr said: You might try contacting (from his website): Bill Thompson - Echinoid Collector Echinoids.com 1575 IH-10 W Seguin, Texas 78155512-665-4252 mobile He recently published (2016) a 414 page book on Texas echinoids that you can order here: http://www.echinoids.com/ He might be able to point you to a researcher. Marco Sr. Thanks Marco. Cathy gave us a copy of that book for Christmas. @Daleksec here is some info for you to try. Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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