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Daleksec

Echinoids prepping tool Advice

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Daleksec

Fellow fossil forum members I am in a predicament. I'm in need of air scribe and don't know what type I need to get. I have been working on Sea urchins from the Eastover Formation from Virginia that are concreated in hard sandstone with some of the Spines attached, and a sand dollar from the Piney Point formation with adhered matrix. These two things could be of scientific interest so I would like to prep them slightly so someone could actually see some diagnostic parts in order to give an identification. I Am looking to buy one that can do fine detail and not destroy the specimens but still remove the hard matrix relatively quick . I have already tried dental picks, Exacto knives, and even a dremel to remove the bulk matrix from the Sea Urchins but none have worked. I am looking for one that is under $500 and I have the air compresser already.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

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ynot

There are several threads about this in the "preparation" sub forum. A search there should give You more information than You need.

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RJB

What ynot said.  But removing hard matrix relatively quickly may be wishful thinking.   Good luck.

 

RB

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Daleksec

What about Chicago Pneumatic CP 9361 Industrial Scribe and Engraving Pen. Are they any good? My original plan was going to buy a scribe from paleotools but I don't have the funds to get one, and if I bought  CP 9361 do I just buy the tip for it or is there a certain one I need.  Or should I wait to buy a paleotool air scribe? Personally, I need to get these to a state where a paleontologist could identify them without them having to prep them their self.

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jpc

Without seeing the fossils, I think it is safe to say that a Chicago style airscribe is going to be way to harsh for an echie w spines.  If it were up to me I would say that air abrasive is the only way to go with this... and magnification either via OptiVisor, magnifying lamp or binocular microscope.   

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jpc

and this just in from the front... depending on the matrix, I have heard that KOH (potassium hydroxide) can also be used.  I have never tried it, even though I did get some a few years ago.  Not easy, but if you search KOH on this site, it might give you some insight.  

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caterpillar

KOH is the best to prep echinoids in marl

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Daleksec

I will post pictures of them tonight.

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Ptychodus04

I have a CP9361 and love it. It is great for removing bulk matrix but terrible if you have to get anywhere close to the fossil. It isn't as good as a Paleo Tools ME9100 but you can buy a new front end and stylus to basically turn it into an ME9100. You're going to want some good magnification also.

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KimTexan

You said you have used a Dremel, do you have the engraving tip set? I am not a pro by any means, but I have used the Dremel with the engraving set to get close on some of my echinoids. I haven’t had any with spines in place though, but I did get them clean enough for ID. 

After I got pretty close to the test I have taken the tip off the Dremel and used it with my hand rather than the Dremel. They’re pretty small to hold though, but it has done reasonably well. I definitely have to go low budget though.

 

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JohnBrewer
26 minutes ago, KimTexan said:

I have taken the tip off the Dremel and used it with my hand rather than the Dremel. They’re pretty small to hold though, but it has done reasonably well. 

Excellent idea @KimTexan! I’ve never thought of that but will be something I’ll employ in the future if warranted. You can get pin vices (vises for you guys over the pond ;) ) that would take Dremel bits I’m sure. 

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Daleksec

Piney Point formation Sand Dollar glued together with PaleoBond Penetrant Stabilizer  

IMG_8352.JPG

IMG_8351.JPG

IMG_8350.JPG

IMG_8349.JPG

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Daleksec

Sea urchin #1 from the Eastover Formation

IMG_8341.JPG

Sea urchin #2 Eastover Formation

IMG_8339.JPG

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Daleksec

Sea urchin #3 Eastover Formation

IMG_8355.JPG

Sorry, the photos are dark.

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Al Dente
On 12/4/2017 at 5:45 PM, Daleksec said:

These two things could be of scientific interest so I would like to prep them slightly so someone could actually see some diagnostic parts in order to give an identification. 

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I agree that these specimens might be of interest to a paleontologist. If you are thinking about donating them, I would recommend not prepping them yourself. Most museums would do a much better job of prepping without damaging the specimens than the average person could do. I’m not aware of any published accounts of echinoids from the Eastover Formation so these could be the first.

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steelhead9

I agree with JPC that air abrasion is the only way to prep these without damaging them.

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Daleksec

 Any Ideas on who would like to look at them, to my knowledge, there is no one in Virginia that does sea urchins. Including the Smithsonian.

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SailingAlongToo

@MarcoSr

Know any resources that can help Trevor or at least point him in right direction?

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sixgill pete

@Daleksec @SailingAlongToo

As far as prepping, I do my own using dental picks and tools along with sewing needles. I use my scope and my computer screen to see up close. very time consuming and it does not always remove all the matrix. If these were from the Paleogene I would suggest getting in touch with Adam Osborne, but I really have no contacts for Neogene echinoderms. There must be someone at the Smithsonian I would think.

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SailingAlongToo
8 minutes ago, sixgill pete said:

@Daleksec @SailingAlongToo

As far as prepping, I do my own using dental picks and tools along with sewing needles. I use my scope and my computer screen to see up close. very time consuming and it does not always remove all the matrix. If these were from the Paleogene I would suggest getting in touch with Adam Osborne, but I really have no contacts for Neogene echinoderms. There must be someone at the Smithsonian I would think.

Thanks Don.

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SailingAlongToo

@MikeR

Any suggestions on how to prep and anyone knowledgeable to help Trevor with ID?

Thanks.

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MarcoSr
1 hour ago, SailingAlongToo said:

@MarcoSr

Know any resources that can help Trevor or at least point him in right direction?

 

You might try contacting (from his website):

 

Bill Thompson - Echinoid Collector
Echinoids.com
1575 IH-10 W
Seguin, Texas  78155


512-665-4252 mobile

 

He recently published (2016) a 414 page book on Texas echinoids that you can order here:

 

http://www.echinoids.com/

 

He might be able to point you to a researcher.

 

Marco Sr.

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SailingAlongToo
21 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

 

You might try contacting (from his website):

 

Bill Thompson - Echinoid Collector
Echinoids.com
1575 IH-10 W
Seguin, Texas  78155


512-665-4252 mobile

 

He recently published (2016) a 414 page book on Texas echinoids that you can order here:

 

http://www.echinoids.com/

 

He might be able to point you to a researcher.

 

Marco Sr.

Thanks Marco. Cathy gave us a copy of that book for Christmas.

@Daleksec here is some info for you to try.

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