Moroccan dinosaur claw

[Andreamed8000]

Hello I'm not too expert in fossil but I take from '70 collection this plaque that should came from Kem Kem, the claw is 4,7 inch and the plaque 15 inch long.

The matrix is very hard, near red colour like was presence of iron, formed by small grains and seems to be unbroken recently because all borders are like sand eroded, maybe this type of pieces came directly from sands of desert?

I've searche on Google but I don't find nothing similar.

Regards    

[Troodon]

The matrix is not typical of what you find bones or teeth from the Kem Kem but that is not to say it's not from there  just very unusual.  It's very difficult to determine what you have with the pictures you provided there is nothing diagnostic to help with an ID.  The specimen is also not in the best state of preservation.  Can you take a photo of the side of the "claw" it might help.  

[Haravex]

I will try to explain this as best as possible in the kem kem you have around 2 to 4 layers of conglomerate from a fast water source sometimes they are thick sometimes thin above this by about half a meter to 1 meter above these you occasionally find fossils they are normally in a hard red compressed like red sand clay is the best way I can describe it and this looks like it came from that section a rib I was r3cently prepping had this same sort of matrix on it and took around 10 hours total if anyone has the names of these layers it would be great so I don't have to make this awkward explination. As for the fossil it's definitely bone but can't say for sure that it is a claw to prep around it with an air cribe or electric engraver could help show what it is in better detail.

[Andreamed8000]

Hello I'm not too expert in fossil but I take from '70 collection this plaque that should came from Kem Kem, the claw is 4,7 inch and the plaque 15 inch long, how it is sure it came from Morocco.

The matrix is very hard, near red colour like was presence of iron, formed by small grains and seems to be unbroken recently because all borders are like sand eroded, maybe this type of pieces came directly from sands of desert?

I've searche on Google but I don't find nothing similar.

Regards    

[Andreamed8000]

Hello thanks made new post with new photo, please ask administrator to delete these one posted wrong! Sorry it is first time!

 

[Troodon]

You should repost them here under reply

[digit]

I've merged these two topics together so all photos are available in one topic.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[JohnBrewer]

If that is a claw that’s a great find at that size!

[Troodon]

Not interested in matrix pictures can you take a picture of the side of the bone not top, thank you and post here in reply section

 

[Andreamed8000]

[Spinosaurus]

yes, looks like claw. you can see that by the sides, there is some kind of 'cut' in there. i'm not an expert but i would say spino toe claw. because it is a bit flatter at the bottom. but maybe @Troodon or @LordTrilobite can tell you wich species it really is 

[Andreamed8000]

And this type of matrix?

 

[Troodon]

Thank you much better pictures. Definitely a Theropod foot claw but only a partial, the back end is missing. Photos show you what a complete one looks likes.  It might be a Spinosaurid but some of the diagnostic features are missing but because of size I would lean that way. .  The matrix is just not the typical one you see but does not change anything, does not look like a good preservation layer.I would not try to remove the claw because it fragmented and may fall apart.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

The matrix is a Kem Kem conglomerate. 

Many of the fossils are found in these layers. 

[Haravex]

it would be possible to remove the toe claw however unless you knew what you where doing i would not recommend. And I agree with troodon on this it looks to be a spinosauride sp claw however could not be 100 certain due to the fragmentary nature of the specimen.

[Andreamed8000]

Thanks for answer, Tidgy's Dad this type is found into sands? Or is atatchhed to otehr rocks, because the borders of the entire matrix are round

 

[jpc]

It looks cool in the rock....

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I don't quite understand , but these conglomerate layers are indeed often separated by sandstone layers, the environment was constantly changing here and many different layers are present over a vast area. 

Some of the conglomerate layers seem complete, others seem to be breccio-conglomerates with pebbles in a rougher matrix. 

it's still very poorly studied considering, and many of the herbivorous dinos are hidden away by the collectors as carnosaurs sell better.  

[Haravex]

This is first one is of the lower layers. The second one is showing more where the patches as i call them occur. Sadly these are the only photos i have at the moment until sort out my files on camera and transfer them over to PC. As for the herbivores of the kem kem having personally dug and looked through numerous amounts of material i rarely see anything of this nature and if I do find anything i buy straight away so far i have only obtained 3 rebbachsaurus teeth and this is after looking for weeks over two trips spanning a time when they have new material again a varied number of dealers (around 6 or 7) and maybe 15 different miners, with this based in mind i would find it hard for these men to hide away sauropod material, also carnosaurs didn't exist in morocco. 

[LordTrilobite]

20 minutes ago, Haravex said:

also carnosaurs didn't exist in morocco.

Carnosaur was sometimes used as a wastebin name that would include most non-coelurosaurian theropods. When talking about carnosaurs in this way, it would also include Spinosaurids, Abelisaurids and Carcharodontosaurids. But this term generally isn't really used in this way anymore.

[Troodon]

Haravex you look great in that hole must be a very dangerous place to collect.

 

I don't believe Moroccans would hold any type of material back especially those from herbivores.  I see what they sell at the Tucson show and it's everything from cheap junk to high end fossils.

The research I've seen points to a very different paleoenvironment one which is aquatic or semi-aquatic which feeds the top predators.  So herds of herbivores are just not present since the environment was not suited for terrestrial vegetation but very beneficial to aquatic life.

.

[Andreamed8000]

Thanks all for answer, sorry if I ask something that for you so expert is natural but the layers what are? Layers of terrestrial land or surely layers formed under water where the remains of dino finish? A river, sea? Because other many inclusion means that was a deposit on the booton of a river example where fragments of dinos and others falling down?

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Andreamed8000

[Haravex]

@LordTrilobite Ah ok i understand like the wastebasket taxon of megalosaurus or iguanadon, i didn't realize this thank you.

 

@Troodon Haha thank you i cropped it to not show the picture of one of the miners i worked with due to not having his permission, but yes it is very dangerous in parts some mines go for maybe 100 meters deep, and as you say material ranges from broken ends that have suffered the unkind process of fossilization and some are pristine, but one thing that can always be guaranteed is the number of ornithpristis (spelling?) rostral barbs and fish vertebrates.

[Tidgy's Dad]

2 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

Carnosaur was sometimes used as a wastebin name that would include most non-coelurosaurian theropods. When talking about carnosaurs in this way, it would also include Spinosaurids, Abelisaurids and Carcharodontosaurids. But this term generally isn't really used in this way anymore.

Yeah, genuinely , thank you, I am miles behind and still trying to catch up with all the modern terminology, whatever. 

I can assure you all that the huge amounts of quite spectacular finds here are, not exactly limited, but done in such a way that what sells best is put up first. 

There are huge amounts of brachiopods , corals, bryozoans and other less 'sexy' fossils that just rarely get seen. 

Everyone's just out prepping, or faking trilobites, mosasuars, dinos and so on, but what you see is not the fair reality. 

Do you really believe that meat eating dinosaurs are more common fossils than herbivores?

 Where are the herbivores?

They are in the workshops until people show more interest. 

 

[Baryonyx]

That's a very intresting claw. I would also say that it's probably a spino foot claw.