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cipollinaj

Mammoth tooth

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cipollinaj

HI,  I am new to fossil collecting and I wanted a mammoth tooth for my office. Through the internet , I contacted a fellow in Russia who claimed to have dug mammoth fossils . He sent me some photos. I'm no expert , but this looks fresh to me . I asked are you sure this is  a 10,000 year old fossil and not from a modern day  elephant and possibly from poaching . His reply was that the permafrost is an excellent preservative and they had found animals with skin and hair .  What is your opinion.

getPart?uid=30941714&partId=2.2&scope=ST

Edited by cipollinaj
added line

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Taogan

Russia is a long way to go for mammoth if you are in Westchester, there are plenty of American teeth available, but the material from places like Yakutia  is normally OK and does look fresh. Mammoth does look different to elephant so you should be able to check by comparing pictures online. 

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cipollinaj

Hi Taogan,  Thanks for your reply. I have compared it to pictures online.

The occlusal surface is similar to modern day asian elephants so is difficult to discriminate if it mammoth  or not.

My question is... Can a 5000 to 10000 year old fossil be so pristine and keep such original color

after  being exposed to permafrost and then thaw ??

PS-MY wife puts meat in the freezer and it looks worse then this after 6 months :) 

Edited by cipollinaj

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-AnThOnY-

The quick answer is yes. Bones from mammoths removed from permafrost and left exposed actually start to rot and smell like a fresh kill.

 

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ynot

Post good pictures of it if You are unsure.

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cipollinaj

getPart?uid=30941732&partId=2.2&scope=ST

Hi, I have this photo. If this is a mammoth tooth and if its this perfect and correct I will purchase.He actually has 2 and they are NOT cheap.  

My thought are that a mammoth  tusk is an incisor tooth  (and like any other tooth has  an enamel surface ) and they don't look pristine like these molars

Please give me your thoughts. Thanks

Edited by cipollinaj
I corrected my english :)

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JohnBrewer

I’m not seeing any images. Can you use this link in the reply box to upload to the forum 

 

2D702BD4-0CA7-488E-B9FA-A3B7057E0D39.jpeg.b2138cef257e4c31aaf76ba3b23cf423.jpeg

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cipollinaj

getPart?uid=30941732&partId=2.2&scope=ST

hi John,  I notice I cannot see photos using my phone but I do see them on the computer. Hope this helps.

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Taogan

No pictures, just a link to AOL that I can't open, I don't have an account with them

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JohnBrewer

You need you photos on your computer not online. Then when you reply to this thread click the ‘click to choose file’ and find your image on your computer and upload. You’ll then need to click the + button to add it to your post. :)

Edited by JohnBrewer
Speling and grammer

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cipollinaj

Hi,

I'm sorry the first photos didn't come out but I needed the youth to help me out :)

As i said, I was in contact with someone from Russia who has said he dug fossils of mammoths and he had some mammoth teeth for sale.

He sent me photos of which I enclosed one . I was just curious as the quality of these fossils were amazing.

I just question if these are truly 10000 year old fossils dug from the permafrost. Can you just advise if you feel this is a true mammoth fossil.

 

IMG_20171211_084342_NEW.jpg

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caldigger

Yep its a real beauty too.  It might have a consolidant applied to help keep it all together, but that is quite normal.

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Nimravis

That is a great looking tooth.

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Tidgy's Dad

Beautiful tooth, the roots are extraordinary! :)

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Fossildude19

Topics merged, for continuity. 

Nice tooth. :) 

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caldigger
1 hour ago, cipollinaj said:

Hi,

I'm sorry the first photos didn't come out but I needed the youth to help me out :)

As i said, I was in contact with someone from Russia who has said he dug fossils of mammoths and he had some mammoth teeth for sale.

He sent me photos of which I enclosed one . I was just curious as the quality of these fossils were amazing.

I just question if these are truly 10000 year old fossils dug from the permafrost. Can you just advise if you feel this is a true mammoth fossil.

 

IMG_20171211_084342_NEW.jpg

Darn kids, there's no better way to show up us old croneys than in the subject of electronic devices.

If you ever have a problem with computers, phones, tablets or anything that requires electrical plug ins, just ask a child. I always feel so stupid when I can't get something to work and it takes them about ten seconds to fix it. Sheesh!

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fossilized6s

Honestly to address your initial concern there is no definitive answer. Asian Elephant teeth are extremely similar to Mammoth teeth. Maybe someone like @Harry Pristis could spread some knowledge on this issue. But if you're really concerned just buy a Mastodon tooth. There's no mistaking those teeth with any living Elephants. Lol

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cipollinaj

Thanks  for your replies....and you're correct, if I buy a mastodon tooth there would not be a problem :)

I hope that someone could give more definitive ways to tell the mammoth from the asian elephant tooth.

I'm an Orthodontist so I am a little out of my comfort zone discussing fossils with experts.

I see on the internet that Georges Cuvier in 1796 did a paper on the differences and he shows the midline

of the mandible being more narrow in the asian elephant than the mammoth.

His drawing also shows what appears to be  more wavy enamel ridges on the asian elephant.

I don't have a  mandible in my case to go by , yet if you look at all examples of mammoth molars on the internet today, you see 

a predominance of these wavy enamel ridges in the better preserved ones.

Is Cuvier correct with his drawing and most of these wavy " mammoth"  examples are from the more recent asian elephant ?

Also, is permafrost  such a great preservative that the tooth above could be so flawless ?

It also doesn't weigh more than an elephant's tooth from today as it was not fossilized by replacement of 

its organic components by minerals as you see in most fossils today.

Your thoughts ??

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steelhead9

This is definitely a mammoth tooth and not a modern elephant tooth. It was probably removed from a section of jaw, which would account for it's amazing preservation. It is a top quality specimen. Modern elephant teeth are generally white with a brown ring around the chewing surface. Here is a photo of a typical modern elephant tooth.

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Taogan

Looks like a recently removed mammoth tooth, has to be Siberian and has to be removed from an intact jaw to get that level of preservation in the roots. It looks as near perfect as you can get.

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oldtimer

That is an amazing looking tooth.  Real? Yes. The root structure is impressive.

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JohnBrewer
17 hours ago, caldigger said:

Darn kids, there's no better way to show up us old croneys than in the subject of electronic devices.

Hehe. 

 

Stunning tooth, well worth waiting for the images!

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cipollinaj

Thanks for all your help.

I realize from reading posts on different forums that experts can actually identify

different mammoth species from their enamel ridges and the distance been ridges.

Where would I get that info and would one  be able to identify my example

if I did not know it was from Siberia ?

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steelhead9

Mammuthus primigenius

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cipollinaj

Thanks !!!

Just one more question if I can,

why do you think there is a brown ring around the gingival margin of extant elephants and not Mammoths

and is this the most definitive  way to differentiate an asian elephant's molar from a mammoth's ??

Edited by cipollinaj
..

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