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Paleoworld-101

Claw ID Help - Bouldnor Formation, UK

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Paleoworld-101

Collected recently from Bouldnor on the Isle of Wight. It is about 33 million years old (earliest Oligocene). Fossils of turtles, a small alligatorid (Diplocynodon) and land mammals (most commonly anthracotheres) are the usual finds. This is the first ungual i have ever found from this location, and i am having trouble finding images of other examples to compare with. It measures 18mm long. 

 

I first thought crocodile when i collected it, but i would like other opinions. I'm now tossing up between mammalian and crocodilian. I understand going further than that will probably not be possible. 

 

Cheers!

 

IMG_2704.thumb.JPG.70ae4f7782558854b6c0398fbfa69b76.JPG

IMG_2711.thumb.JPG.5ba2b084ff8fd78fda00f8b576cd72b4.JPG

IMG_2731.thumb.JPG.e251131a392f49c8cff0d58809b6918f.JPG

IMG_2750.thumb.JPG.194a3afa7fad60dbca25480f9aef87b0.JPG

 

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Haravex

My very limited knowledge of anything past the cretaceous, i would say with a degree of certainty that it is not crocodilian past that i have no idea but congratulations on a really nice find, remember to consolidate it as soon as you can. 

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ynot

You said turtles were found there. They have broad ungual, so maybe it is a turtle.

 

@Harry Pristis may have an idea on this.

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Harry Pristis

 

 

It's nothing I recognize.  If I had found it, I would have called it dinosaurian.

 

 

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Paleoworld-101
33 minutes ago, ynot said:

You said turtles were found there. They have broad ungual, so maybe it is a turtle.

 

@Harry Pristis may have an idea on this.

Would a small freshwater turtle claw be this big? I'll have to do some searching. 

 

6 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

 

It's nothing I recognize.  If I had found it, I would have called it dinosaurian.

 

 

I guess i've single handedly pushed the record of non-avian dinosaurs all the way to the Oligocene, sweeeeeet :P 

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ynot
4 minutes ago, Paleoworld-101 said:

Would a small freshwater turtle claw be this big? I'll have to do some searching. 

Not a small turtle. Could be a tortoise(?).

But if Harry does not recognize it then tutle/tortoise is probably not right.

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jpc

 Could it be a small mammal hoof?  That is my guess ,but I will not rule out tortoise.  

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Harry Pristis

 

 

For comparison:

 

 

tortoise_ungual.JPG

unguals6.JPG

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Paleoworld-101
17 hours ago, ynot said:

Not a small turtle. Could be a tortoise(?).

But if Harry does not recognize it then tutle/tortoise is probably not right.

 

I'm fairly sure the location has not produced any large tortoises, only small freshwater species. 

15 hours ago, TXV24 said:

Hi @Paleoworld-101

 

I've collected a couple of distal phalanges from Bothriodont anthracotheres (Bothriodon or Elomeryx) from Hamstead and Bouldnor that closely resemble this. I may be wrong but it looks like it could be the distal phalange from the innermost (first?) finger in the manus, as it matches the size and morphology. Although whether it would be Elomeryx or Bothriodon I don't know. A lot of the turtle phalanges I've seen from the Bouldnor Fm. (haven't found one myself yet) are more 'claw-like' and usually much smaller. 

 

Hopefully this helps,

 

Theo 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that, if it's not too much trouble do you think I could see your examples for comparison? I picked up two complete proximal anthracothere phalanges as well, so I'm well on my way to putting together a surrogate foot lol

 

13 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

 

For comparison:

 

 

tortoise_ungual.JPG

unguals6.JPG

 

See above. I don't believe any large tortoises occur at this site, but thanks!

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Paleoworld-101
47 minutes ago, TXV24 said:

@Paleoworld-101  No tortoise material has ever been found in the Bouldnor Fm. and the turtle genera we have don't get that big. Here's my best example from the Lower Hamstead Mbr. at Hamstead Cliff. It looks like it's from a different toe/finger to yours but you can see the overall resemblance. Again not sure if this is Elomeryx or Bothriodon (it's really difficult to distinguish the two), but a bothriodont anthracothere. 

 

(Please ignore the Bowfin vert I was using it to prop up the bone) 

 

171214174723826.thumb.jpg.6d06151bf60ef4337a88afdff7a1e1d7.jpg

 

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171214174943164.thumb.jpg.518e72a7b77497a73822df909432ea96.jpg

Cool, anthracothere ungual it is. What's the size of that one? Thanks for the pics

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TXV24

@Paleoworld-101 No worries, it's 2.8cm long and 1.1cm wide at it's widest point

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