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Please help Id these raptor teeth


dontom

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I was hopeing to get some help with the id of these raptor teeth. The small tooth I’ve had for a long time and I don’t have any info on its location. The larger tooth I just recently purchased and the info the seller listed is below. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

 "It was found in upper Cretaceous age deposits, Tegana Formation, in the phosphate mines of southern Morocco (near Taouz)."

 

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The larger tooth is most likely Carcharodontosaurid.

 

Can you get a high res pic of the smaller tooth under good lightning? (pref sunlight or torchlight)

 

It would help if we had a straight line measurement on both teeth also. Anyway, even assuming you had a raptor, there's no species identified for Kem Kem yet.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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Tegana formation is not really a thing. these teeth come from the Kem Kem Compound Assemblage (also known as the Kem Kem beds). This includes 2 formations that has dinosaurs in them. Ifezouane and Aoufous formation. I'd say there are Dromaeosaurids/raptors in the Kem Kem beds. But none have been described yet. Family name is the best you're gonna get.

 

I think -Andy- is right. that bigger tooth looks like it could be Carcharodontosaurid.

The smaller one might have some potential. But more photos with details and different angles will definitely help in identification. Raptor teeth are generally recurved (which is one is), flattened and have larger serrations on the back edge. The serration on the front edge are often very small indeed. From these photos alone it's hard to tell how fat the tooth is.

 

But @Troodon knows more about raptor teeth.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Speaking of experts - @hxmendoza knows plenty about raptors too.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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I think Andy and LT have described the tooth on the left quite well, it's not a raptor, but a Carcharodontosaurid from the Kem Kem beds of Morocco.   If you do not know the locality of the other tooth you will not be able to ID but I do not believe its a raptor just not compressed enough, best identified as "Theropod indeterminate." with the current photos.  Like it's been mentioned we need better/sharper pictures of serrations of both edges on the smaller tooth.  Both are very nice teeth. 

 

One more thought if you can get a real closeup of the denticles that would help

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Thanks for all the info. The larger tooth did not seem like a raptor tooth to me but I know very little and I am learning more and more each day, thanks in part to this forum. I’ve bought from this seller before and he’s usually really good with his claims so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but I did also want a second opinion so that’s why I posted here. 

 

I already have a Carcharodontosaurus tooth in my collection. I really just want 1 tooth from each animal.  Is it likely this is from a Carcharodontosaurus or is it likely from a different Carcharodontosaurid because of its small size. Or is there no way to really distinguish. 

 

I attached some more pics of the smaller tooth. 

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Thanks for the photos. Your last photo has the clearest picture of the denticles while the others are a bit blurry.  It's definitely not a Dromaeosaurid.  Shape, size and robustness of the crown coupled with the shape of the denticles reminds me of a Tyrannosaurid. Is it possible this tooth is from North America? Cretaceous? 

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1 hour ago, Troodon said:

Thanks for the photos. Your last photo has the clearest picture of the denticles while the others are a bit blurry.  It's definitely not a Dromaeosaurid.  Shape, size and robustness of the crown coupled with the shape of the denticles reminds me of a Tyrannosaurid. Is it possible this tooth is from North America? Cretaceous? 

It was hard to get clear pics that close up. Everything was coming out blurry but these were the best of them. 

 

That’s a possibility.  I bought the smaller tooth years ago and I don’t think it stated a location and if it did I don’t remember where. All I remember is that it said it was a raptor tooth. I believe that’s as specific as it got. But it may not even be a raptor that’s just what they sold it as. 

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The second is also not a raptor and not from Morocco.  Sellers like to identify teeth as raptor, as bling to help sell their products.   Most are probably clueless what a real raptor tooth is.   Without anything more definitive info on locality it's a Theropod indet.   Could very well be a Tyrannosaurid. 

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To me the second one looks to be tyrannosaurid its denticles suggest that to me anyway and if troodon is suggesting this that further confirms my assumptions however I feel that would be an identification based on very limited evidence. As for the image quality what ever you are using to take photographs a very useful trick is to put a loop in front of the lens and then manually focus the camera this can help a great deal with macro photographs, when I'm back home I will sharpen and lighten the photos in PS.

Thanks Matt 

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Thanks for your additional pictures but without locality on the smaller tooth I cannot say much more and does not change my opinions.  I suggest that if your interested in purchasing additional teeth post them here before you buy to get our opinions.  Sellers often do not do a good job in identifying teeth but there are lots of capable folks in this forum to help.

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21 hours ago, Troodon said:

Thanks for your additional pictures but without locality on the smaller tooth I cannot say much more and does not change my opinions.  I suggest that if your interested in purchasing additional teeth post them here before you buy to get our opinions.  Sellers often do not do a good job in identifying teeth but there are lots of capable folks in this forum to help.

 

So due to the lack of info on the teeth the most they can be narrowed down to is Carcharodontosaurid for the larger tooth and Theropod possibly a Tyrannosaurid for the smaller tooth?  I'm in the process of making labels for everything in my collection that's why I'm posting all these items.  I just want to get my labels as accurate as I can.

 

One last question.  For the larger tooth that is believed to be from a Carcharodontosaurid can Carcharodontosaurus be ruled out due to the small size of the tooth or is there no way to determine?  I already own a Carcharodontosaurus tooth so I'm hoping it's from one of the other smaller Carcharodontosauridae?

 

Thanks Tom

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12 hours ago, dontom said:

 

So due to the lack of info on the teeth the most they can be narrowed down to is Carcharodontosaurid for the larger tooth and Theropod possibly a Tyrannosaurid for the smaller tooth?  I'm in the process of making labels for everything in my collection that's why I'm posting all these items.  I just want to get my labels as accurate as I can.

 

One last question.  For the larger tooth that is believed to be from a Carcharodontosaurid can Carcharodontosaurus be ruled out due to the small size of the tooth or is there no way to determine?  I already own a Carcharodontosaurid tooth so I'm hoping it's from one of the other smaller Carcharodontosauridae?

 

Thanks Tom

 

No dinosaur in the Kem Kem Beds can be accurately identified to species level based off teeth alone.

 

There's no way to confirm or deny if it's Carcharodontosaurus.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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I agree with Troodon and Andy, the larger tooth is Carcharodontosauridae. The smaller tooth is not dromaeosaur. I have three Kem Kem teeth that match this morphology. They have an overall Tyranosaurid-like morphology, and I’ve been perplexed by them. 

 

No Tyrannosaurs gave ever been reported from those deposits in Africa. But who knows if they were or weren’t there. 

 

I would label the smaller tooth as Theropoda sp. indet.

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On 12/25/2017 at 9:55 AM, hxmendoza said:

I agree with Troodon and Andy, the larger tooth is Carcharodontosauridae. The smaller tooth is not dromaeosaur. I have three Kem Kem teeth that match this morphology. They have an overall Tyranosaurid-like morphology, and I’ve been perplexed by them. 

 

No Tyrannosaurs gave ever been reported from those deposits in Africa. But who knows if they were or weren’t there. 

 

I woul

If you get a chance would love to see these tyranno teeth.  The Kem Kem is a mystery and anything different is cool.

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5 hours ago, Troodon said:

If you get a chance would love to see these tyranno teeth.  The Kem Kem is a mystery and anything different is cool.

Troodon, I’ll PM you, or post pics of my teeth later this week when I’m off my Graves rotation.

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Hi,

 

Why all the members of the forum could not see them ? :headscratch::o:(

 

Coco

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1 hour ago, Coco said:

Hi,

 

Why all the members of the forum could not see them ? :headscratch::o:(

 

Coco

LOL! Because they’re Classified “Top Secret”!

 

I’ll post them later this week on this thread.

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there are no Tyrannosaurs or Dromaeosaurs in the Kem Kem what so ever!!

Deltadromeous is not a dromaeosaur but believed to be within Abelisauroidea

 

Most likely Carcharodontosaurid and the smaller one will be Abelisaur premaxillary tooth :) 

 

People have an issue with size...? Well, all dinosaurs had to be babys at some point! and there is evidence of juveniles within the Kem Kem fauna. There is also heterodonty within the mouth of the dinosaurs, so all the teeth vary in size and shape as you go along the jaw.

Some of the premaxillary teeth of Abelisaurs and some Carcharodontosaurids can resemble those of Tyrannosaurs due to the distal carinae being offset as well as more conical in shape, however, the cross-section is not D shaped. This morphology makes the tooth more robust for biting down on bone etc. 

 

This paper is very helpful in identifying teeth from the Kem Kem. 

 

Richter, U., Mudroch, A., & Buckley, L. G. (2013). Isolated theropod teeth from the Kem Kem beds (early Cenomanian) near Taouz, Morocco. Paläontologische Zeitschrift, 87(2), 291-309.

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