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Kutembea

Fossil equus skull or modern horse?

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Kutembea

Hi! 

I found a skull online, and think it looks great. But I'm not sure if it is a skull from a modern horse, or if it is a fossil skull. 

Can you see if it looks modern or very old? Cause I can't decide of my own if it is a "to good to be truth" skull.

 

 

s-l500.jpg

s-l500-1.jpg

s-l500-2.jpg

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ynot
Just now, Kutembea said:

Hi! 

I found a skull online, and think it looks great. But I'm not sure if it is a skull from a modern horse, or if it is a fossil skull. 

Can you see if it looks modern or very old? Cause I can't decide of my own if it is a "to good to be truth" skull.

 

 

Need pictures.

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Kutembea
3 minutes ago, ynot said:

Need pictures.

Oh, something went wrong. They didn't show up, but fixed it now.

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ynot
Just now, Kutembea said:

Oh, something went wrong. They didn't show up, but fixed it now.

Something in the software causes multiple submissions.

It will be reduced to one thread when the moderators see them.

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ynot

Looks modern to Me, but wait for others to reply.

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thelivingdead531

It looks modern to me also.

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abyssunder

Looks modern to me also.

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RJB

I vote modern.

 

RB

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JohnBrewer

Modern for me too. What do you think Harry? @Harry Pristis

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Harry Pristis
1 hour ago, JohnBrewer said:

Modern for me too. What do you think Harry? @Harry Pristis

 

Any bit wear on P2 ?  The probability is that it is a modern horse, I suppose; but, it is impossible from images to say for certain.

 

 

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Max-fossils

Usually the test to differentiate modern bone from fossil bone is the flame test. But then again if you found the skull online with just pictures of it that's gonna be hard to do. And asking the seller to take a video of him doing, you can already be sure he/she will refuse (and I don't blame that seller!).

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Ginkgojerry

I live in Yukon and I can assure you it's not so easy. We have lots of fossils being simply unfrozen from the permafrost each year by gold miners. That's right... they are frozen in the ground. Sometimes we find prehistoric horses with hair and skin and meat on them. They look just like something that died months ago or a previous season. 

The best way to tell is contact the paleo guys here at the government of Yukon.ca .... show them your photos and they could tell you if it's a modern animal or not because they know their mammals.

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Seguidora-de-Isis

Whether it comes from thawing the permafrost or not, for me the fact is that it does not appear to be fossilized. I do not know if this seems to be the case here, but I do know many collectors who only collect fossilized animals and plants.

 

But I admit I also know collectors who specialize in everything that comes from the thawing of permafrost. :mammoth:

 

Further, I believe it is the seller's obligation to inform the buyer whether the material is fossilized or not. :ninja:

 

Note: A great example of this is the @Tidgy's Dad that has disappeared, and this does not mean that it is fossilized! :D

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Tidgy's Dad
53 minutes ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

Whether it comes from thawing the permafrost or not, for me the fact is that it does not appear to be fossilized. I do not know if this seems to be the case here, but I do know many collectors who only collect fossilized animals and plants.

 

But I admit I also know collectors who specialize in everything that comes from the thawing of permafrost. :mammoth:

 

Further, I believe it is the seller's obligation to inform the buyer whether the material is fossilized or not. :ninja:

 

Note: A great example of this is the @Tidgy's Dad that has disappeared, and this does not mean that it is fossilized! :D

I'm here! I'm here! 

Not fossilized yet, i don't think! :bone:

Looks modern to me. 

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WhodamanHD

@Max-fossilsNot sure if a flame test would even work if it is claimed to be from the permafrost, subfossils can and do have organic material. I vote modern for what it’s worth.

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ynot
2 hours ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

I believe it is the seller's obligation to inform the buyer whether the material is fossilized or not.

Good luck with that.

Some of the worst will label anything as a fossil if they think it will sell.

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Seguidora-de-Isis
11 minutes ago, ynot said:

Good luck with that.

Some of the worst will label anything as a fossil if they think it will sell.

 

Is not true! For me, my mother-in-law is a fossil, but I do not want to sell her anyway! Whoever wishes, I give away free! :P

 

image.png.d67d8e1209cf0abb79c8f1780e5639d3.png

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Shellseeker
27 minutes ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

 

Is not true! For me, my mother-in-law is a fossil, but I do not want to sell her anyway! Whoever wishes, I give away free! :P

 

image.png.d67d8e1209cf0abb79c8f1780e5639d3.png

:rofl: Be careful!!!.. You may start needing a food and wine taster like the ancient kings.

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Seguidora-de-Isis
2 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

:rofl: Be careful!!!.. You may start needing a food and wine taster like the ancient kings.

 

I promise to think deeply about this, for such a possibility has not occurred to me!

:hearty-laugh:

 

 

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steelhead9

A difficult question. Modern equus evolved millions of years ago. A fossil does not have to be mineralized to be a fossil. It simply has to have lived before the Holocene. This horse could have died hundreds of thousands of years ago, been frozen in permafrost and while the bone would still be bone, it technically would be a fossil. Then again it could have died 50 years ago, been buried in leaves, and stained brown by tannins. Tough call. 

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Ginkgojerry
1 hour ago, steelhead9 said:

A difficult question. Modern equus evolved millions of years ago. A fossil does not have to be mineralized to be a fossil. It simply has to have lived before the Holocene. This horse could have died hundreds of thousands of years ago, been frozen in permafrost and while the bone would still be bone, it technically would be a fossil. Then again it could have died 50 years ago, been buried in leaves, and stained brown by tannins. Tough call. 

Yes, thanks steelhead, for saying it again. that's my point. It's easy and not an issue when it's a mastodon or mammoth tusk. Easy to see it's not modern. 

The poster should read then state the sellers description... location of find, and estimated age. Would save the forum a lot of time. And even help us direct you to where you might find specialist professionals. 

Having said that, often these placer miners know nothing about fossils. They simply throw all the bones they find into a pile. At the end of the season a government paleo guy comes and collects them up. Sometimes the miners try their luck on ebay. 

Its a challenge in this forum to post a photo alone then have us all comment in circles. Sure, it's fun. 

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