Shellseeker Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 It was a gorgeous day for 5 hours, then the cold front arrived about 1:30pm in Arcadia. I found Makos, tigers, ray bucklers, a llama ankle bone, a couple of antique bullets, and my hunting partner found and asked me to identify BIG (12.5 inches): I guess you can see LITTLE on the previous photo: Thanks for any and all comments and identifications. Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Little reminds me of a tapir tooth, big I’d say guess mammoth, simply because of its size! Don’t know what bone it would be. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Whale humerus and tapir upper. I say tapir even though this specimen has more crenulations and corregations than seems likely. It would otherwise be the smallest mastodont tooth I've ever seen. 6 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: Whale humerus and tapir upper. I say tapir even though this specimen has more crenulations and corregations than seems likely. It would otherwise be the smallest mastodont tooth I've ever seen. Dang, forgot about whales... “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: Whale humerus and tapir upper. I say tapir even though this specimen has more crenulations and corregations than seems likely. It would otherwise be the smallest mastodont tooth I've ever seen. Thanks Harry. Very concise. I was struggling on both ends. I was thinking mastodont or mammoth toebone but they are half the size of this. I should have figured it out... too big for mammoth. EDIT: I read the following TFF thread, and wondered what is the size range of whale humerus bones and which whale likely produced this one.. So @Boesse Bobby may help.. I have the same issue that you do for the tapir tooth... It really looks like mastodont in the wrong size. Way too small. I will send it to Richard Hulbert. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hey all - sorry for the winter break hiatus, I was truly on vacation and have not checked anything since the 13th of December! The humerus is from a baleen whale, likely a balaenopterid. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Nice finds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Some really nice finds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 @WhodamanHD @Harry Pristis Got a response from Richard Hulbret: Quote It is a lower second molar from a large individual of the peccary Platygonus. Was this from the area where you get the Blancan fossils? That would make sense, as Blancan Platygonus is significantly larger than late Pleistocene species. Richard This small tooth did come from the Blancan site, so Platygonus it is. This is my FIRST Platygonus tooth. I like it better than a miniature mastodon tooth 2 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: @WhodamanHD @Harry Pristis Got a response from Richard Hulbret: This small tooth did come from the Blancan site, so Platygonus it is. This is my FIRST Platygonus tooth. I like it better than a miniature mastodon tooth Ah, that makes sense. I thought if peccary but seemed off, almost like a cross between the two (peccary and tapir). I’ve never heard of Platygonus, research time! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 11 hours ago, WhodamanHD said: Ah, that makes sense. I thought if peccary but seemed off, almost like a cross between the two (peccary and tapir). I’ve never heard of Platygonus, research time! Looks like Platygonus research is complex with lots of individual species. Thanks to Richard for that summary identification. I just read this FLMNH site: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/land-mammal-ages/blancan/ Which has this quote Quote Note: All vertebrate fossil sites of the Bl1 interval in Florida derive from marine deposits, and no terrestrial mammals are known. Typical fossils of this interval are sharks, rays, bony fish, seals, walrus, dugongs, and whales. Most are species continuing from the late Hemphillian NALMA. The Bl1 does include the earliest known occurrences in Florida of Carcharodon carcharias and the last known occurrences of the sharks Carcharocles megalodon, Carcharodon hastalis, and Hemiprisitis serra, the baleen whale Balaenoptera cortesii (= Balaenoptera floridana), the walrus Ontocetus emmonsi, and the dugong Corystosiren varguezi. NEW insight for me on approximate age of GWs, Makos, and Hemis that I have found. The end of Blancan1 was approximately 2.6 mya, so Florida Makos/Hemis are older than that date and GWs are younger. Exactly the kinds of details I like. Note that index species for Florida Blancan2 includes Platygonus bicalcaratus 4 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 1/2/2018 at 6:24 PM, Boesse said: Hey all - sorry for the winter break hiatus, I was truly on vacation and have not checked anything since the 13th of December! The humerus is from a baleen whale, likely a balaenopterid. Thanks Bobby, New information makes me search the net . I found the FLMNH website that listed index species for Blancan of Florida then I got this wikipedia quote: Quote †"Balaenoptera" cortesii "B." cortesii is a small species; it probably represents a distinct, unnamed genus of balaenopterid. A larger variant, called "B." cortesii var. portisi is probably also a distinct genus, and may be the same genus or species as Cetotheriophanes capellinii. The species "B. floridana" is indistinguishable from "B." cortesii var. portisi.[3] It is not that I believe the humerus must come from Balanenoptera costesii, just that it is one of the likely possibilities. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Hey Jack, Very cool find! I'm amazed at all of the critters that were wandering around Florida that we just dont find much of. Looking at Hulbert's book makes you wonder! Keep finding more of em...Thanks for showing us the latest. Regards, Chris Edited January 6, 2018 by Plantguy I cant spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Plantguy said: Hey Jack, Very cool find! I'm amazed at all of the critters that were wandering around Florida that we just dont find much of. Looking at Hulbert's book makes you wonder! Keep finding more of em...Thanks for showing us the latest. Regards, Chris Agree Chris. For you or I to find NEW fossil species after 10 years of hunting is amazing. Look at the size of the tooth (13x17x20mm) and think about Richard's statement. This is the significantly LARGER peccary. Wait till we find Pleistocene peccary teeth. How big are they? Quote That would make sense, as Blancan Platygonus is significantly larger than late Pleistocene species. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 9:21 AM, Shellseeker said: Looks like Platygonus research is complex with lots of individual species. Thanks to Richard for that summary identification. I just read this FLMNH site: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/land-mammal-ages/blancan/ Which has this quote NEW insight for me on approximate age of GWs, Makos, and Hemis that I have found. The end of Blancan1 was approximately 2.6 mya, so Florida Makos/Hemis are older than that date and GWs are younger. Exactly the kinds of details I like. Note that index species for Florida Blancan2 includes Platygonus bicalcaratus Oof, that's a bit sloppy. The youngest unreworked fossil occurrence (worldwide) of Hemipristis serra is from the Leisey Shell pit of Florida, which is about 1.1-1.3 Ma. Published in the bulletin of the Florida Museum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Boesse said: Oof, that's a bit sloppy. The youngest unreworked fossil occurrence (worldwide) of Hemipristis serra is from the Leisey Shell pit of Florida, which is about 1.1-1.3 Ma. Published in the bulletin of the Florida Museum... Thanks Bobby, I just want to get this correct in my head. Do you think that my interpretation of the FLMNH web article on Blancan time periods and index species is sloppy or that the article itself is sloppy, or maybe both. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The peer reviewed article is correct and the web article is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Which makes perfect sense to me Some of you may like this Finch/Whitmore et al,outtake edit:paper HIGHLY recommended for its mixture of facies analysis,ecology,ethology,and taphonomy caveat: it's from 1972.several global descriptions/revisions of Platygonus species are around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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