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It was a gorgeous day for 5 hours, then the cold front arrived about 1:30pm in Arcadia. I found Makos, tigers, ray bucklers, a llama ankle bone, a couple of antique bullets, and my hunting partner found and asked me to identify BIG (12.5 inches):

IMG_0079ToeBone.thumb.jpg.c18a0f1c01d82c3c12aa620c40fa12a5.jpgIMG_0080Toebone.thumb.jpg.095e0cfc4bb4fc51591cb4ed14854942.jpg

I guess you can see LITTLE on the previous photo:

IMG_0090Cap.thumb.jpg.b5fde292892cc80f383e53edcb7f3fb6.jpgIMG_0095molar.thumb.jpg.f4434c5eaaff9d21ac44e05bbe2167c9.jpgIMG_0097molar.thumb.jpg.e126eec261a5ba2b8fdfd8999bc3b1b6.jpgIMG_0092molar.thumb.jpg.d0b23b675e4f9b5cb99ea8f1490531c3.jpg

Thanks for any and all comments and identifications.   Jack

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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Little reminds me of a tapir tooth, big I’d say guess mammoth, simply because of its size! Don’t know what bone it would be.

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“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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Whale humerus and tapir upper.  I say tapir even though this specimen has more crenulations and corregations than seems likely.  It would otherwise be the smallest mastodont tooth I've ever seen.

 

 

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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5 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

Whale humerus and tapir upper.  I say tapir even though this specimen has more crenulations and corregations than seems likely.  It would otherwise be the smallest mastodont tooth I've ever seen.

 

 

Dang, forgot about whales...:P

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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7 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

Whale humerus and tapir upper.  I say tapir even though this specimen has more crenulations and corregations than seems likely.  It would otherwise be the smallest mastodont tooth I've ever seen.

 

 

Thanks Harry.  Very concise.  I was struggling on both ends.  I was thinking mastodont or mammoth toebone :wacko: but they are half the size of this.   I should have figured it out... too big for mammoth.

EDIT:  I read the following TFF thread, and wondered what is the size range of whale humerus bones and which whale likely produced this one.. So @Boesse Bobby may help..

 

 

I have the same issue that you do for the tapir tooth... It really looks like mastodont in the wrong size.  Way too small. I will send it to Richard Hulbert.

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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Hey all - sorry for the winter break hiatus, I was truly on vacation and have not checked anything since the 13th of December!

 

The humerus is from a baleen whale, likely a balaenopterid.

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@WhodamanHD @Harry Pristis

 

Got a response from Richard Hulbret:

Quote

It is a lower second molar from a large individual of the peccary Platygonus.  Was this from the area where you get the Blancan fossils? That would make sense, as Blancan Platygonus is significantly larger than late Pleistocene species.

Richard

This small tooth did come from the Blancan site, so Platygonus it is.  This is my FIRST Platygonus tooth.  I like it better than a miniature mastodon tooth:yay-smiley-1:

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The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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3 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

@WhodamanHD @Harry Pristis

 

Got a response from Richard Hulbret:

This small tooth did come from the Blancan site, so Platygonus it is.  This is my FIRST Platygonus tooth.  I like it better than a miniature mastodon tooth:yay-smiley-1:

Ah, that makes sense. I thought if peccary but seemed off, almost like a cross between the two (peccary and tapir). I’ve never heard of Platygonus, research time!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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11 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

Ah, that makes sense. I thought if peccary but seemed off, almost like a cross between the two (peccary and tapir). I’ve never heard of Platygonus, research time!

Looks like Platygonus research is complex with lots of individual species. Thanks to Richard for that summary identification.

I just read this FLMNH site: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/land-mammal-ages/blancan/

Which has this quote

Quote

Note: All vertebrate fossil sites of the Bl1 interval in Florida derive from marine deposits, and no terrestrial mammals are known. Typical fossils of this interval are sharks, rays, bony fish, seals, walrus, dugongs, and whales. Most are species continuing from the late Hemphillian NALMA. The Bl1 does include the earliest known occurrences in Florida of Carcharodon carcharias and the last known occurrences of the sharks Carcharocles megalodon, Carcharodon hastalis, and Hemiprisitis serra, the baleen whale Balaenoptera cortesii (= Balaenoptera floridana), the walrus Ontocetus emmonsi, and the dugong Corystosiren varguezi.

NEW insight for me on approximate age of GWs, Makos, and Hemis that I have found. The end of Blancan1 was approximately 2.6 mya, so Florida Makos/Hemis are older than that date and GWs are younger. Exactly the kinds of details I like. :D

Note that index species for Florida Blancan2 includes Platygonus bicalcaratus

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The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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On 1/2/2018 at 6:24 PM, Boesse said:

Hey all - sorry for the winter break hiatus, I was truly on vacation and have not checked anything since the 13th of December!

 

The humerus is from a baleen whale, likely a balaenopterid.

Thanks Bobby,  New information makes me search the net .  I found the FLMNH website that listed index species for Blancan of Florida then I got this wikipedia quote:

Quote

"Balaenoptera" cortesii

"B." cortesii is a small species; it probably represents a distinct, unnamed genus of balaenopterid. A larger variant, called "B." cortesii var. portisi is probably also a distinct genus, and may be the same genus or species as Cetotheriophanes capellinii. The species "B. floridana" is indistinguishable from "B." cortesii var. portisi.[3]

It is not that I believe the humerus must come from Balanenoptera costesii, just that it is one of the likely possibilities.

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The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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Hey Jack, Very cool find! I'm amazed at all of the critters that were wandering around Florida that we just dont find much of. Looking at Hulbert's book makes you wonder! Keep finding more of em...Thanks for showing us the latest. 

 

Regards, Chris 

Edited by Plantguy
I cant spell
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5 hours ago, Plantguy said:

Hey Jack, Very cool find! I'm amazed at all of the critters that were wandering around Florida that we just dont find much of. Looking at Hulbert's book makes you wonder! Keep finding more of em...Thanks for showing us the latest. 

 

Regards, Chris 

Agree Chris. For you or I to find NEW fossil species after 10 years of hunting is amazing. Look at the size of the tooth (13x17x20mm) and think about Richard's statement.  This is the significantly LARGER peccary. Wait till we find Pleistocene peccary teeth.  How big are they?

Quote

That would make sense, as Blancan Platygonus is significantly larger than late Pleistocene species.

IMG_0097molar.thumb.jpg.0637dabd3c32fc447efa6fc3191c8b34.jpg

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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On 1/4/2018 at 9:21 AM, Shellseeker said:

Looks like Platygonus research is complex with lots of individual species. Thanks to Richard for that summary identification.

I just read this FLMNH site: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/land-mammal-ages/blancan/

Which has this quote

NEW insight for me on approximate age of GWs, Makos, and Hemis that I have found. The end of Blancan1 was approximately 2.6 mya, so Florida Makos/Hemis are older than that date and GWs are younger. Exactly the kinds of details I like. :D

Note that index species for Florida Blancan2 includes Platygonus bicalcaratus

Oof, that's a bit sloppy. The youngest unreworked fossil occurrence (worldwide) of Hemipristis serra is from the Leisey Shell pit of Florida, which is about 1.1-1.3 Ma. Published in the bulletin of the Florida Museum...

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1 hour ago, Boesse said:

Oof, that's a bit sloppy. The youngest unreworked fossil occurrence (worldwide) of Hemipristis serra is from the Leisey Shell pit of Florida, which is about 1.1-1.3 Ma. Published in the bulletin of the Florida Museum...

Thanks Bobby, I just want to get this correct in my head. Do you think that my interpretation of the FLMNH web article on Blancan time periods and index species is sloppy or that the article itself is sloppy, or maybe both.

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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Which makes perfect sense to meB)

Some of you may like this

Finch/Whitmore et al,outtake

2teetymplwillist.jpg

edit:paper HIGHLY recommended for its mixture of facies analysis,ecology,ethology,and taphonomy

caveat: it's from 1972.several global descriptions/revisions of Platygonus species are around

 

 

 

 

 

 

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