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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Bird bones in flint- please help to confirm

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Dear Guys,

 

I recently collected three examples of interesting small bones that have the cavities in the same area, I found them in flint erratics of South Lithuania.

One scientist (Jens Koppka) told be that one time the occasional bird bone in flint was found by his colleagues in Lithuania.

I recenly found the link with very similar shape of bone known as Enantiophoenix in the middle picture of one publication that I share with you now :

https://peerj.com/articles/1032/

Open this link and look for "Comparison of scapulocoracoid between the dromaeosaurid Balaur and other paravians", the cavity in the second scapulocoracoid picture is named as "snf". :)

Please look at my fossil pictures and this link and help with confirmation if you could. :D 

 

Best Regards

Domas   

Enantiornithean humerus Cretaceous, 1.jpg

Enantiornithean humerus, Cretaceous, 1.jpg

Enantiornithean humerus, Late Cretaceous, Varena, 2.jpg

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TXV24

I'm sorry but I don't see a lot of evidence of there being bone here. Flint is formed from the breaking down and precipitation of silica particles from the skeletons of animals like diatoms and sponges in deep marine sediments, making it unlikely that these are small bird bones. I may be wrong as I don't have an expert knowledge on flint, but it may be more likely that what you're looking at are something like small silica fragments or crystalline structures within the nodule that superficially resemble bones. 

 

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Fossildude19

Contrasted the pictures:

 

5a50dfd5d9968_EnantiornitheanhumerusCretaceous1.jpg.5d44042d5626c6ac60c00945613e253c.jpg

 

 

5a50dfddd043e_EnantiornitheanhumerusCretaceous1.jpg.576c1feab5e491e11c348d56ca93f822.jpg

 

 

5a50dfe5941e4_EnantiornitheanhumerusLateCretaceousVarena2.jpg.342985f8af12f5736d0cca1292387e49.jpg

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Ludwigia

That certainly does look like bone, though. I do know that the occurence of fossils in flint nodules is not all that rare. I also know Jens Koppka personally. He is an expert who know what he's talking about and his word is to be trusted. He's helped me out many times with difficult identifications. If I were you, I would show it to someone who has experience with this type of preservation and fossil. Perhaps Jens could suggest someone? It is always difficult, even for experts, to make judgements from photos, but maybe someone in the forum knows more? Precise stratigraphy would of course be a great help in narrowing things down, but that could prove difficult if, as you state, this is in an erratic.

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Dear TVX24,

 

Thank you for the note but the bone texture is visible in the third specimen that is brown in color. 

The other fragments are prepared out as bone imprints because the bone framgents were not complete and to show the complete relief of bone cavity. 

I agree that flints should have more fish like remains than tetrapods but in rare cases flints also could form in shallow regions and there is also another possibility-

the sea could regress and the sludge from which the flint had to form could also appear in the coast.

The Cretaceous sea in Lithuania was different in size and in the last epochs the area was quite small, it was wearing out in the southern part of the country. :) 

Even quite deep sea regions could be near islands were grew rich flora and thrived the same prehistoric birds.

And one bird bone was already found in the flint erratic of my country. :)

 

Best Regards

Domas 

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Dear Ludwigia,

 

Thank you very much for interesting comment :)) 

I am still searchingt for a specialist on Cretaceous birds, talking about stratigraphy- these flint should be formed in Santonian- Maastrichtian ages of Late Cretaceous. 

The majority of rocks in that age are flintstones, spongiolites, limestones marls and chalk. :) 

It is known some unidentified reptile, fish and shark remains in the late cretaceous glacial ingots of South Lithuania. 

 

Regards

Domas 

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

I forgot to mention- all bones are about 5 mm length. :) 

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Dear Guys, 

Thank you for confirmation of bones but maybe somebody have worked with enantiornithean specimens? 

If somebody knows this taxon and its anatomy, the confirmation of Enantiornithes would be very helpful :)

 

Best Regards

Domas

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fifbrindacier

Those are, according to me, surely bones. In the third photo, i don't know if those are a radius and a cubitus of Enantiornithes or another terrestrial animal, but it visually looks like it, though i'm not expert at all. I would like to know what would think @old bones  @Harry Pristis

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Dear fifbrindacier,

Thank you very much for confirmation of terrestrial animals in flintstone. 

I will wait what will say old bones and harry pristis. :D 

 

Best Regards

Domas

 

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old bones

I cannot add much, except to say that they sure look like bones to me. I'm afraid I don't know enough to say what they are from tho...

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Mike from North Queensland

A lot of the enantiornithine bone and assumed enantiornithine specimens, that I find is fragmentary with thin walled bone. That is easily broken when deposited.

I your case it may help if you made a cast from the mould left in flint so as to see the actual bone fragment outline.

Do not do this if there are bone fragments left as that could dislodge them. 

 

Mike

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fifbrindacier

I don't think that would be possible in that case because they seem to be well embedded in the flint.

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Yes, the flint is especially hard rock so it is very difficult to prepare bone out saving it complete... :)

But thank you for informative opinions. :D

 

Regards

Domas

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

And I also can say that first two bones are prepared as cavities because the other half was not complete and in the cavities there were also few bone texture remains 

that had to be cleaned to see all relief of bone in the cavity. :) 

There were nothing interesting to prepare out in the first two examples, so I made cavities showing some bone pattern and complete relief of skeletal parts. 

The third bone is complete but is also little perfumed so I do not want to take a risk because flint is very strong and hard.

 

Regards

Domas 

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