Santa Fe River fossil-oddities

[Max-fossils]

Hi all, 

 

From Fossil Voyages with @Cris, at the end of our trip together in the Santa Fe, I got spoiled with a bunch of great fossils! Unfortunately I don’t remember what everything was... 

 

Anyways, please help me putting an ID on all of these! All from the Santa Fe River in north Florida, and all likely from the Pleistocene. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Max

 

 

#1

 

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

#2

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

#3

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

#4

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

#5

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

#6

[Max-fossils]

(Personal finds:)

 

#8   Cris and Kyle weren’t able to ID it further than artiodactyl jaw... So that’s probably what it will stay at, but maybe someone here has a clue

[Max-fossils]

#9   Snake or greater siren vertebra???

[Max-fossils]

Looking forward to all your opinions! Species would be great.

 

Best regards,

 

Max

[Al Dente]

20 minutes ago, Max-fossils said:

 

#9   Snake or greater siren vertebra???

 

It is from a salamander. Probably one of the siren species but could be Amphiuma.

[old bones]

I second Al Dente's opinion of #9.

[Max-fossils]

@Al Dente @old bones I agree that it does look like a greater siren vertebra, Siren lacertina. Here is another one from Florida below, which looks really similar. When I found the one above, I said that it was a greater siren vertebra, but Cris & Kyle both said it looked a lot more like snake... Which is why I am asking for you guys' opinion. 

 

Do you guys have any clues on what the other things might be species-wise?

 

[D.N.FossilmanLithuania]

I had the review of the pictures you shared- and what I can say:

1. Crocodile claw.

2. Astragalus (?), maybe reptile.

3. Huge turtle (I think, tortoise) claw.

4. Bison premolars.

5. Sheep or goat third molar. 

6. Sand dollar (it is modern spatangoid sea urchin). 

7. Vertebrae of bird. Maybe goose, duck, and similar...

 

Best Regards

Domas 

[D.N.FossilmanLithuania]

And talking about jaw fragment- it should also be ungulate, but without teeth it is difficult to say which.

 

[old bones]

3 hours ago, Max-fossils said:

@Al Dente @old bones I agree that it does look like a greater siren vertebra, Siren lacertina. Here is another one from Florida below, which looks really similar. When I found the one above, I said that it was a greater siren vertebra, but Cris & Kyle both said it looked a lot more like snake... Which is why I am asking for you guys' opinion. 

 

Do you guys have any clues on what the other things might be species-wise?

 

 

 

This is also salamander. We should really see a picture of both 'ends' to be sure. Snakes have a 'ball and socket' arrangement, whereas salamander verts are concave on both ends.

[Cris]

#1: A very large turtle claw, probably an alligator snapping turtle (Macrochelys).

#2: A manatee inner ear bone.

#3: Giant tortoise (Hesperotestudo crassicutata) ungual phalanx

#4: Large artiodactyl molar, probably Hemiauchenia.

#5: Whitetail deer (Odocoileus virginianus) molar.

#6: Wythella echinoid from the Eocene Ocala Limestone.

#7: Looking at this jaw again, I believe it is a whitetail deer jaw. Compare the roots on #5 to the three sockets in this jaw.

#8: Definitely not snake. Snake have a ball and socket...The socket-socket are usually amphibian, so we were thinking that it could be frog, but looking at it now, I'm not sure why we thought that (it doesn't look much like frog). I agree that greater siren is a better ID. 

[Max-fossils]

@old bones both ends are concave. So it is definitely amphibian in that case. And a greater siren (which is a kind of amphibian related to salamanders) seemed like the best match to me, mainly because I have very similar fossils from Florida which are labeled as greater siren. Thanks a lot for the help, especially this part was interesting and new to me: 

1 hour ago, old bones said:

Snakes have a 'ball and socket' arrangement, whereas salamander verts are concave on both ends.

 

 

@D.N.FossilmanLithuania thanks for the help! I agree with some of your IDs, but not all. Maybe have a look at Cris' post right above, I like these slightly better 

 

@Cris Thanks again for all the great ID help! And of course, thank you once again for giving me all these fossils in the first place, they all have a place of pride in my collection 

I agree with most of your IDs (when I compare them to Google results). The ones I am a little more doubtful on are: 

#1: here is a picture that I stole from one of @Harry Pristis's old posts:

And I think that shape-wise our claw looks a bit more like the gator one, because it is less curved and slightly thinner than the turtle claw. 

 

For #2 and #4, I can't find any image that is really strikingly similar... Do you maybe have a picture of similar fossils? 

 

For #3 (just for clarification; I agree with the ID otherwise), ungual phalanx is in this case the same as claw/ core right?

 

Thanks again everyone!

[Cris]

Max,

 Yes, an ungual phalanx is the very last bone in the digits...so a claw core/hoof core/anything like that.

 I believe the "alligator claw" in the image above is also turtle. Here is an image of an uncleaned alligator claw from the University of Florida website:



It is difficult to see here, but there is a groove that runs down the side of the claw. Here is another alligator claw, cleaned up:



I worked a sinkhole site for years that had a ton of alligator material in it and I found at least 30 claws. Here are a few from that site, along with some digits. Notice the grooves on the sides of the claws: 



You can compare these to the snapping turtle claws listed HERE (image 137, scroll down) that I believe are correctly identified (except for the actual genus names, which are outdated).

In regards to #2, I have probably 100 or more of that identical bone and they are always found in the same sites with other manatee ear bones that are easier to recognize, teeth and ribs. The density of the bone is also identical to other manatee ear bones. I admit that I have never been able to find the exact bone online or in any books, and was only explained by a guy who I'd consider to be an expert on FL fossils what it was and how exactly it sat in the ear of a manatee. I'd love to find out for sure the name of this bone and confirm that this guy was correct (or wrong, in which case I will know something I didn't know previously).

 About #4, here is an image of the upper molars from Hemiauchenia. keep in mind that yours is split almost in half: 



I'd also like so send you some more fossils sometime to help expand your collection...Perhaps we could work out a trade or something, since I know you mentioned that you do that sort of thing often.

-Cris

[Harry Pristis]

11 minutes ago, Cris said:

Max,
. . . .
In regards to #2, I have probably 100 or more of that identical bone and they are always found in the same sites with other manatee ear bones that are easier to recognize, teeth and ribs. The density of the bone is also identical to other manatee ear bones. I admit that I have never been able to find the exact bone online or in any books, and was only explained by a guy who I'd consider to be an expert on FL fossils what it was and how exactly it sat in the ear of a manatee. I'd love to find out for sure the name of this bone and confirm that this guy was correct (or wrong, in which case I will know something I didn't know previously).
. . . 
-Cris

 

Now, I'm curious.  I don't recognize #2 as anything I have found in the past.  Maybe it's the shadows in the images (minimum two light sources, Max!).

The only manatee ear parts I have been able to identify are the bullae.  Can you provide better images of some of your finds, Cris?