Shellseeker Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Mmmm...mmmm, One of my favorites. Only the 3rd complete one I have ever found and in pristine condition!! I also found some very nice shark teeth but this was the highlight of the trip. 1 5 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Niiiiice! Do you find these are rather brittle and thus difficult to uncover complete? I've never dealt with water based fossiling. The ones I recover involve a pickaxe and shovels (hard matrixes), so they are really rare to get out whole. Believe it or not, this one which is nice and complete was tossed aside from a previous digger likely not knowing what it was. It measures a good 4 inches across so from a good size whale, by STH standards. I am more partial to soft baked cookies myself...the ones from the kitchen not long deceased animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Nice finds- always love those dark colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Nice finds Jack, better than I did today Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Nice one, and I’m not sugar coating it! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, caldigger said: Niiiiice! Do you find these are rather brittle and thus difficult to uncover complete? I've never dealt with water based fossiling. The ones I recover involve a pickaxe and shovels (hard matrixes), so they are really rare to get out whole. Believe it or not, this one which is nice and complete was tossed aside from a previous digger likely not knowing what it was. It measures a good 4 inches across so from a good size whale, by STH standards. I am more partial to soft baked cookies myself...the ones from the kitchen not long deceased animals. I generally find halves, quarters, and little pieces. I am very careful. At this size , they are fragile. If I drop it, it will most likely break... This one was hiding in sand, clay, and little rocks/pebbles. The Peace River has LOTS of big rocks , bones, and hard stuff that grinds fossils down. It is a stroke of luck to find one whole. I really LIKE your 4 inch version! Thanks for all the Congrats and well wishers... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Nice find, Jack! Haven't found any cetacean epiphyses but I did come upon a nice gomphothere epiphysis when I was digging up at the Montbrook site with FLMNH. I'm kinda fascinated with these "bone ends" that are loosely attached in immature critters before they fully join to the ends of the long bones or vertebrae in the adults of the species. The added bonus is that you can use the term 'epiphysis' and sound smugly intelligent (at least to those who have not encountered this term before). Fossil cookies are a great description for the uninitiated. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Silly, thats not an Oreo its a Hydrox! And it looks as if you've already eaten the cream filling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 So if I understand that rightly, you've found a whale bone end. Do you know which bone? I was a bit confused at first, since I understood that the term epiphysis refers to the pineal gland. Now I have learned that it also has another connotation. Fantastic find at any rate. 1 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Ludwigia said: I was a bit confused at first, since I understood that the term epiphysis refers to the pineal gland. Now I have learned that it also has another connotation. Fantastic find at any rate. I am a bit confused too. Do you mean epiphysis, the round end of a long bone? I see nothing indicating the round end of a long bone. It appears flat, like an oreo wafer. Or are you referring to the epiphyseal plate, a flat disc that help bones elongate during growth? If it is the growth plate, does this infer that this is a juvenile whale, as these plates calcify and meld into the rest of the bone as they are no longer needed. @Ludwigia, Research does show the pineal gland is also called the epiphyseal gland. Learn something every day! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I was under the impression that they are vertabrae epiphysis.. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yup. The epiphysis (I guess "epiphyseal plate" to be more precise) is the bony plate at either end of long bones OR on the front and back surfaces of vertebrae that are loosely connected in growing juveniles which apparently allows new bone material to be added to the back side of the plate while the other hardened side can solidly interface with the adjoining bone (likely with cartilage between for cushioning). I'm assuming that if new bone were to be forming at the very ends during growth that it would not make for a strong opposing surface at the joints and this is the marvelous adaptation that allows for bone growth without compromising the joints. I too was unaware that the pineal gland is also known as the "epiphysis cerebri" which seems odd as this tiny gland buried deep in the core of the brain is used to regulate sleep and wakefulness and not growth (as far as I know). You'd think that since epi=surface that this gland would be located on the surface of the cerebrum but it does not seem to be (unless it is on the lower surface). I love the fact that Jack's post on a wonderfully preserved "fossil Oreo/Hydrox" (though I prefer Chips Ahoy myself) combined with Roger's pineal input have lead me to learning more about the tiny pinecone shaped gland we all carry in our noggins that put us to sleep and wake us every day. Sometimes it is impossible for me to see the world as a huge collection of randomly interesting connections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series) BTW: I've found my old link to my Montbrook trip report with photos of my Gomphothere long bone epiphyseal plate: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/63056-volunteer-dig-with-the-flmnh/&do=findComment&comment=660853 Cheers. -Ken 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 After my first post, I did a little further research into whales in particular: This whale was young – and only 9 meters. The ends of the bones (the epiphyses) have not fused and so the ends of the radius, ulna, and humerus all are separate. <imsrc="http://curious.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/files/Unfused-Epiph-925x690.jpeg" alt="Unfused-Epiph" class="size-large wp-image-2753"/> The tips of the humerus, radius and ulna with unfused epiphyses. Now I can see how epiphysis fits vs epiphyseal plate 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 This is really fantastic, so much to learn, so little time... adding @Boesse since I have a few questions: 1) I may have mistakenly thought that this specific example is the unattached vertebral disk of a marine mammal, because of the different adorned/unadorned sides. 2) Because it is small, made an assumption that it is dolphin, not whale. 3) Wondered -- are these diagnostic to species. Now to comments: On 1/20/2018 at 11:41 PM, caldigger said: Silly, thats not an Oreo its a Hydrox! And it looks as if you've already eaten the cream filling. I may have been choice limited in Bridgeport, Connecticut ..... https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hydrox-cookies-oreo I always! licked out the cream filling before dunking the chocolate wafers into milk. Is there another way??? On 1/21/2018 at 7:41 AM, minnbuckeye said: I am a bit confused too. Do you mean epiphysis, the round end of a long bone? I see nothing indicating the round end of a long bone. It appears flat, like an oreo wafer. Or are you referring to the epiphyseal plate, a flat disc that help bones elongate during growth? If it is the growth plate, does this infer that this is a juvenile whale, as these plates calcify and meld into the rest of the bone as they are no longer needed. @Ludwigia, Research does show the pineal gland is also called the epiphyseal gland. Learn something every day! I meant "epiphysis" as in marine mammal vertebral disc. Usually I get educated by what I am finding, and in one size or another, I was finding a fossils that looked almost exactly like this. Then I actually found something that is more in line to what you and @digit are documenting. and this one...http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/10971-skull/ Quote Quick note - someone referred to these as vertebral discs - there are intervertebral discs in the vertebrate vertebral column, but they are remnants of the notochord, and they are soft connective tissue elements between the vertebrae that do not ossify; the ephiphyses fuse on to the vertebral centrum, but are part of the vertebrae, not the intervertebral disc. Bobby On 1/21/2018 at 9:54 AM, minnbuckeye said: After my first post, I did a little further research into whales in particular: This whale was young – and only 9 meters. The ends of the bones (the epiphyses) have not fused and so the ends of the radius, ulna, and humerus all are separate. http://curious.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/files/Unfused-Epiph-925x690.jpeg<imsrc="http://curious.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/files/Unfused-Epiph-925x690.jpeg" alt="Unfused-Epiph" class="size-large wp-image-2753"/> The tips of the humerus, radius and ulna with unfused epiphyses. Now I can see how epiphysis fits vs epiphyseal plate Quote This whale was young – and only 9 meters. I am wondering what we can determine from the size (mine is about 40 mm diameter) and characteristics --- Is it associated with the vertebrae or the radius? How small and how big do these come (what is the differentiating size between dolphin, pilot, and sperm whale) IF we can associate with vertebrae. Maybe some bright young Phd is doing a paper on this. Like Ken/Digit, have I said lately how much I treasure this website. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFL Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Really nice Jack! Never even found a piece of one yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Cool find! Congrats! -@fossilhunter21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, fossilhunter21 said: Cool find! Congrats! -@fossilhunter21 Yes, I still enjoy this one. Finding a whole one is challenging. I still find pieces a couple of times a month. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrow Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 snickerdoodle... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveltip1 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) Nice finds.... Here's a complete cetacean epiphysis that I found at Miocene Calvert Cliffs, Maryland. 3 inches diameter x 1/3 inch thick. Edited January 7, 2022 by traveltip1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 5 hours ago, traveltip1 said: Here's a complete cetacean epiphysis that I found at Miocene Calvert Cliffs, Maryland. Very Impressive, especially thickness and level of detail.. Thanks for sharing 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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