Large fossil identification help

[slagmouf]

These were found in a North MS creek. The cut of the creek is down to the hardpan and fifteen feet below ground level. There were numerous fractures on and beyond the exposed portions of the fossils. To accommodate for this and to maintain their integrity, both of them were removed along with hard pan, as a shelf. The smaller of the two fossils was found less than an inch away from the main body. As with the larger fossil, it was fractured and fell into four pieces--the nub, the main body, a shoot, and a tip--and these can be seen in the lower right and the upper left corners, respectively.

Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.

Edited January 31, 2018 by slagmouf

[Fossildude19]

Brightened the photo for you:

 

 

 

[slagmouf]

Thank you, Mr. Tim!

[Miocene_Mason]

I’ve got no clue what the big one is but I reckon the little one could be plant material.

[-AnThOnY-]

I am leaning towards a large section of sea turtle plastron/carapace. However, being from up in that area, it could be pyrite/marcasite covered so that texture/shape might be deceiving. Can you take a picture (in bright sunlight) of the cross section at the broken piece at the lower right hand corner? 

 

Also, take a look around it and see if you can locate some sutures connecting different plates. Might be difficult with all the cracking.

[Rockwood]

7 minutes ago, -AnThOnY- said:

I am leaning towards a large section of sea turtle plastron.

The feature just above the 7"- 8" point on the tape would make a fine rib end. (proximal) 

[Dunnicrinus]

Thanks for brightening up the images, Fossildude19--it really helps! My first impression is that were are indeed looking at portion of a turtle carapace, the surface topography looking very much like the toxochelyid Peritresius, which is known from the Coon Creek beds and higher in NE Mississippi (e.g. Union, Pontotoc, and Tippah counties). Here are two fine reconstructions at the NJ State Museum for comparison...

 

http://fossilsofnj.com/index_files/pornatus.htm

 

http://fossilsofnj.com/reptiles/turtle.htm

 

That said, I cannot resolve some of the curves of the "carapace" as being truly normal shapes you would see in a Peritresius, or even a sea turtle. However, it could be that it is partially eroded, or I'm interpreting what I'm seeing incorrectly, or whatever.

 

Nevertheless, f you will email me the original images, I can get them to Jun Ebersole at McWane Science Center in B'ham, who is currently working on this genus from the Twin States (i.e. AL and MS).

 

George Phillips

george.phillips@mmns.state.ms.us

Museum of Natural Science

Jackson, Mississippi

[slagmouf]

48 minutes ago, -AnThOnY- said:

I am leaning towards a large section of sea turtle plastron/carapace. However, being from up in that area, it could be pyrite/marcasite covered so that texture/shape might be deceiving. Can you take a picture (in bright sunlight) of the cross section at the broken piece at the lower right hand corner? 

 

Also, take a look around it and see if you can locate some sutures connecting different plates. Might be difficult with all the cracking.

There does seem to be a covering. I don't think that it is pyrite. It might be, though. And yes, I can. It will be tomorrow, but I will post the photos. As for the sutures, be my GUEST! I looked. There are just too many fractures to tell.

14 minutes ago, Dunnicrinus said:

Thanks for brightening up the images, Fossildude19--it really helps! My first impression is that were are indeed looking at portion of a turtle carapace, the surface topography looking very much like the toxochelyid Peritresius, which is known from the Coon Creek beds and higher in NE Mississippi (e.g. Union, Pontotoc, and Tippah counties). Here are two fine reconstructions at the NJ State Museum for comparison...

 

http://fossilsofnj.com/index_files/pornatus.htm

 

http://fossilsofnj.com/reptiles/turtle.htm

 

That said, I cannot resolve some of the curves of the "carapace" as being truly normal shapes you would see in a Peritresius, or even a sea turtle. However, it could be that it is partially eroded, or I'm interpreting what I'm seeing incorrectly, or whatever.

 

Nevertheless, f you will email me the original images, I can get them to Jun Ebersole at McWane Science Center in B'ham, who is currently working on this genus from the Twin States (i.e. AL and MS).

 

George Phillips

george.phillips@mmns.state.ms.us

Museum of Natural Science

Jackson, Mississippi

I will email them to you, and I will gladly take specific photographs if they might help with identification. I originally thought that it was a turtle, but it's asymmetrical. One side flares out like you would expect, but the other side seems to curl inward. That may be hard to see in overhead pictures. The "spine" that runs along the larger fossil isn't straight either; it's curved in an S shape, which I thought was strange, but which also might not be abnormal. I will email them to you. Would you like the in situ pictures as well? Is there anything else that you or Jun Ebersole would be interested in a better look of?

Thank you, Mr. George.

Edited January 31, 2018 by slagmouf

[slagmouf]

42 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

The feature just above the 7"- 8" point on the tape would make a fine rib end. (proximal) 

I thought that, too, seeing as the bone lightly curves and comes to a point, but a rib of what, I do not know.

[Rockwood]

8 minutes ago, slagmouf said:

I thought that, too, seeing as the bone lightly curves and comes to a point, but a rib of what, I do not know.

Turtle. It's the shell at the point it meets a vertebra.

[slagmouf]

5 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Turtle. It's the shell at the point it meets a vertebra.

Awesome. Prior to this, the largest fossil that I had found was the size of my palm, so this is blowing my mind.

[Crazyhen]

I can see a turtle carapace with shell, bones and sutures, and what a marvelous find!

[Mike from North Queensland]

+ 1 more for the turtle camp

 

Mike

[izak_]

Wow, fantastic find!!

[Plax]

am with Dunnicrinus and suggest there's more of it there. I'd suggest looking at the drop off downstream of the hardpan erosion surface. May be an accumulation of other parts there.

[JohnBrewer]

Oh that is a nice find!

[fifbrindacier]

[KimTexan]

Very cool find!

[Tidgy's Dad]

That's a lovely turtle find! 

[ynot]

2 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

That's a lovely turtle find! 

OH You say that to all the turtles!

 

It is a nice piece.

[Tidgy's Dad]

13 minutes ago, ynot said:

OH You say that to all the turtles!

 

It is a nice piece.

Tis true. 

I'm a terrible flirt . 

[fifbrindacier]

On 18/02/2018 at 10:35 PM, ynot said:

OH You say that to all the turtles!

 

It is a nice piece.

 

On 18/02/2018 at 10:50 PM, Tidgy's Dad said:

Tis true. 

I'm a terrible flirt . 

He flirts with the phosphasts of morocco, where you can find a lot of turtles.

[Tidgy's Dad]

3 minutes ago, fifbrindacier said:

 

He flirts with the phosphasts of morocco, where you can find a lot of turtles.

I try, but the phosphates make me sneeze. 

But oddly, not in Tunisia.