Miocene_Mason Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Every now and then on the forum someone posts a cream colored meg, or some other type of white sharks tooth. I just thought it was cool and moved on, but after finding two white sharks teeth myself (one below) I started to wonder how this could be. I extremely doubt it’s the original enamel, though I’ve doubted true things before. Would this be because of a certain mineral? Perhaps plant acids, such as in lightning strikes? Just from wear? Are there multiple factors? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The tooth show is a hemipristis not white shark. Coloration is due to the matrix it was in when it mineralized or it could be bleached by the sun. Im sure there are other factors lighting strikes not being one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Color is a product of the available minerals during fossilization. Bleaching can be caused by several factors. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, Troodon said: The tooth show is a hemipristis not white shark. Coloration is due to the matrix it was in when it mineralized or it could be bleached by the sun. Im sure there are other factors lighting strikes not being one. He wasn't stating that this tooth is from a great white, he was talking about the color, in the title. 1 I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 41 minutes ago, ynot said: Color is a product of the available minerals during fossilization. Bleaching can be caused by several factors. This is what I thought, any idea what minerals? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 51 minutes ago, Troodon said: The tooth show is a hemipristis not white shark. Coloration is due to the matrix it was in when it mineralized or it could be bleached by the sun. Im sure there are other factors lighting strikes not being one. Yes, I know (as @Darktooth said). For some reason my mind didn’t make the ‘white shark’ connection. I’m interested why sharks teeth are more likely blue/black than white or other colors. Perhaps hematite is just a more common mineral? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 28 minutes ago, Darktooth said: He wasn't stating that this tooth is from a great white, he was talking about the color, in the title. Yes, thank you! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: This is what I thought, any idea what minerals? No. It could be calcite or quartz, but there are other minerals that could cause a pale coloration. It only takes a small portion of material to cause the colors. And combinations of different elements can make for a nice palette of colors. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 22 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: This is what I thought, any idea what minerals? I always thought the brief explanation on Fossilguy's website was a good start. http://www.fossilguy.com/topics/shark-teeth-colors/index.htm My understanding was that black/darker teeth here in Florida/Georgia/SC come from their association with phosphate mineral deposits or staining from tannins, mud, clay in riverbeds and creeks. B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Brett Breakin' Rocks said: I always thought the brief explanation on Fossilguy's website was a good start. http://www.fossilguy.com/topics/shark-teeth-colors/index.htm My understanding was that black/darker teeth here in Florida/Georgia/SC come from their association with phosphate mineral deposits or staining from tannins, mud, clay in riverbeds and creeks. B It says white teeth (at least his) was white because ground water had leeched away its color. Here is the root of my question, is it this that causes white teeth or a mineral (or both)? I’m saying teeth that come out of the ground white (so sunbleachingbis not a factor). Right now I’m leaning towards water in most cases because teeth are not uniformly white here or most places. Shark tooth hill, CA seems to have white teeth pretty commonly, is this because of silicates and other white minerals? I don’t know. I wonder if any papers have been published on the subject. Keep the ideas coming everyone! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, ynot said: No. It could be calcite or quartz, but there are other minerals that could cause a pale coloration. It only takes a small portion of material to cause the colors. And combinations of different elements can make for a nice palette of colors. I wonder if maybe certain areas or stratigraphies even within a site have different concentrations for chemicals resulting in different colors. Very interesting. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 A local from the Cheaspeake Beach town told me all the light color teeth gave from higher up in the cliffs. I don't know how true this is. I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Darktooth said: A local from the Cheaspeake Beach town told me all the light color teeth gave from higher up in the cliffs. I don't know how true this is. Maybe, they are (as you may know) lighter. The problem I have with this is that I think (but don’t know) that they are terrestrial. There is a layer of dark black sediment right under it which says to me that there was a river or estuarine environment, followed the by the lighter (terrestrial?) environment. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: Maybe, they are (as you may know) lighter. The problem I have with this is that I think (but don’t know) that they are terrestrial. There is a layer of dark black sediment right under it which says to me that there was a river or estuarine environment, followed the by the lighter (terrestrial?) environment. I am not sure what you mean. The Calvert cliffs area was a marine enviroment. There were multiple catastrophic events that took place which is why there are multiple formations present depending where along the cliffs you are. As far as the coloration of different teeth, I think is totally dependent on were in the cliffs they are coming from. The cliffs have multiple layers which you can see when you look at them. I am sure that those different layers hold different minerals. I think this is the main reason for the different colors while there are probably other factors that effect the color to a smaller degree. 1 I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, WhodamanHD said: I wonder if maybe certain areas or stratigraphies even within a site have different concentrations for chemicals resulting in different colors. Very interesting. Look at the multitude of colors that teeth from Shark Tooth Hill come in. I have seen dark gray next to (less than an inch) a light tan. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Darktooth said: am not sure what you mean. The Calvert cliffs area was a marine enviroment. I was under the impression that the cliffs had cycles of encroach (points when shells, skeletons, and teeth built up) and retreat of the ocean, and at some late point the sea retreated completely, not to return till the end of the Pleistocene and the flooding of the Susquehanna created the bay. I am often under incorrect impressions though. Anyway, I wonder where the “white tooth layer” is stratigraphy-wise. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, ynot said: Look at the multitude of colors that teeth from Shark Tooth Hill come in. I have seen dark gray next to (less than an inch) a light tan. Yes it is amazing! Would this also come from replacing minerals or post-burial water leeching? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: Yes it is amazing! Would this also come from replacing minerals or post-burial water leeching? Both, as water is what carries the elements around. Water giveth and taketh away. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 24 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: I was under the impression that the cliffs had cycles of encroach (points when shells, skeletons, and teeth built up) and retreat of the ocean, and at some late point the sea retreated completely, not to return till the end of the Pleistocene and the flooding of the Susquehanna created the bay. I am often under incorrect impressions though. Anyway, I wonder where the “white tooth layer” is stratigraphy-wise. I had never heard about this before. I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Darktooth said: There were multiple catastrophic events that took place which is why there are multiple formations present depending where along the cliffs you are. I’m curious as to what you mean by this. What kind of catastrophic events would cause geologic formations to form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 hours ago, Al Dente said: I’m curious as to what you mean by this. What kind of catastrophic events would cause geologic formations to form? I think I used the wrong words for what I was trying to say. I will get back to this later when I have more time. I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 24 minutes ago, Darktooth said: I think I used the wrong words for what I was trying to say. I will get back to this later when I have more time. Here is a description of the geological setting of the Calvert Cliffs area describing its formation. This is from "Variation in Composition and Abundance of Miocene shark teeth from Calvert Cliff, Maryland". It might be a bit technical for people who don't have much geology training. Here are a couple basics from Wikipedia about Trangressions and Regressions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 bleaching is often accompanied by weight loss and increase of fragility 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I think Troodon has it right when he suggests sun-bleaching causes white fossil teeth. Leaching and depositon of minerals is less important-to-inconsequential when it comes to tooth-whitening, in my opinion. This sun-bleaching doesn't take very long in the Florida sun, in some cases. At worst, the enameloid turns chalky, and the tooth is a loss. You can find examples in abandoned phosphate mine "gun-pits." The anterior hemipristis tooth which WhodamanHD offers as an example doesn't appear to be an example of advanced sun-bleaching -- I wouldn't call it a "white" tooth. That said, my experience is that not every tooth bleaches at the same rate. The fact that I've noted this phenomenon most frequently in large (megalodon) teeth may be a result of a collecting bias. Other opinions? 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 51 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: Leaching and depositon of minerals is less important-to-inconsequential when it comes to tooth-whitening, i I have dug "white" teeth directly from the ground, not exposed to sun until then. Just saying. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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