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Possible permian insect wing?


izak_

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G'day,

 

I was recently splitting some leftovers from the Belmont insect beds (Permian) from NSW, Australia and I found what appears to be an insect wing. Its preserved differently than the Glossopteris in the formation with a shiny surface (not visible in photos). But I thought it could also be half of a glossopteris leaf. So, any ideas? (I am referring to the dark shape just above the ruler)

IMG_1309.thumb.jpg.54bbebe7064960c8ddbb14d9af3924db.jpg

 

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My guess is that it's part of the Glossopteris leaf that has split off from the main portion, sort of like Africa and South America ;)

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3 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

My guess is that it's part of the Glossopteris leaf that has split off from the main portion, sort of like Africa and South America ;)

oh woops I completely read that wrong haha

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Are you able to see what patterns on it look like? Are they all webbed like veins or do they all follow similar paths to one origin?

"I am going to dig up dinosaurs whether they are liquid or solid"

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3 minutes ago, NWGeoFan said:

Are you able to see what patterns on it look like? Are they all webbed like veins or do they all follow similar paths to one origin?

They follow this general pattern. Branching off one another, all starting from one original vein. This is a very terrible drawing, if it helps I can outline them from the original pic.

5a78d68bc95be_ScreenShot2018-02-06at9_10_20am.png.bf098c024f60f691e1aced866476c54a.png

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Brightened and enlarged. 

 

 

IMG_1311.thumb.jpg.4259242823d296a1f2f7149318d2c1e2.jpg      IMG_1309.thumb.jpg.54bbebe7064960c8ddbb14d9af3924db.jpg

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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IMG_1313bright.PNG

 

 

IMG_1313blue.PNG

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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Leaning towards leaf fragment. The vein structure appears to match the missing portion of the main leaf next to it, and i can't picture an insect wing with such a long and thin flimsy attachment-base like that. 

"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

-Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas

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2 minutes ago, Paleoworld-101 said:

Leaning towards leaf fragment. The vein structure appears to match the missing portion of the main leaf next to it, and i can't picture an insect wing with such a long and thin flimsy attachment-base like that. 

Thanks you! The base of it does continue back into the rock, I can try to air scribe it out a bit more?

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2 minutes ago, Foozil said:

Thanks you! The base of it does continue back into the rock, I can try to air scribe it out a bit more?

You can give it a go but be careful as i found the edges of the leaves flake off quite easily, or at least mine did

"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

-Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas

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Just now, Paleoworld-101 said:

You can give it a go but be careful as i found the edges of the leaves flake off quite easily, or at least mine did

I'll paraloid it so it doesn't 

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I'm going to buck the trend here and say this might actually be an insect wing. The cross-veination is not consistent with it being Glossopteris, and the overall shape is somewhat obscured by matrix. Might be worth a closer look.

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1 minute ago, jdp said:

I'm going to buck the trend here and say this might actually be an insect wing. The cross-veination is not consistent with it being Glossopteris, and the overall shape is somewhat obscured by matrix. Might be worth a closer look.

Thank you. I know someone who has done lots of work on the site so I'll ask him. 

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3 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

My guess is that it's part of the Glossopteris leaf that has split off from the main portion, sort of like Africa and South America ;)

Oh snap, paleontological history allusion! 

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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I was envisioning something similar to this flying seed pod. Perhaps of a different variety if course.

 

20180205_180328.png

 

 

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This may be one of those specimens that has to be seen "in hand" as it is too shy and hides from the camera.  My inclination is to say it is plant not insect, but I am not completely sure.  If you have a local expert to consult that would be the best route.  Please let us know what they say.

 

Don

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6 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

Oh snap, paleontological history allusion! 

:D Sometimes I surprise myself. I can't claim to actually be that brilliant when it only happens every now and then.

 

To me it's clearly a piece of the leaf split off - the venation looks the same and the juxtaposition with the main leaf stem must be no coincidence. Also it has bits of carbon (coal) although the main leaf doesn't have so much but maybe it was exposed/weathered longer? Do insect wings ever turn to coal?

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3 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

 Sometimes I surprise myself. I can't claim to actually be that brilliant when it only happens every now and then.

Sure you can! Just type “I claim to be brilliant”, that’s at least how I claim to be brilliant, when it never happens to me!:P

 

btw this thread is interesting, I’m interested especially to see what it turns out to be:popcorn:

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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