Tips in Purchasing a Spinosaurid Hand Claw

[Troodon]

The past few weeks at the Tucson Fossil I ran across a few fake Spinosaur claws but also was surprised how many good ones there were on the market.  I also understand the issues with online claws so decided to put this topic out to help collectors gain a better understanding of them since they are very expensive.  These are my opinions and welcome others since no one person as all the answers.

 

There is no bullet proof approach you can take to insure you have a claw that is not totally fake or composited.  There are some things you need to consider.

 

- First try dealing with what I call preferred Moroccan merchants, those are typically found at big shows and a few have online or FB sites, ones that specialize in Moroccan material are the best.   They typically know what to look for and can point out issues with claws.   Makes life a bit harder to get one but you want a good claw don't you.   This does not take you off the hook its still YOUR responsibility to know what you are buying.

 

- Unless you are an expert never buy one from Auction site.  If you see one that interest you see seek assistant from an expert, not a collector friend, or post it here on the forum we have lots of opinions here.

 

- 2D photos are not always the best to see what is going on with a claw, I prefer handling one.  Composited claws can be good and photos don't show you all the issues.

 

- Good preservation and quality are key for making life easy in deciding if its a good claw or not.  There is where it pays to focus on the better claws.

Claws that are deformed, partial, compressed, beat up or have matrix on them are very difficult to insure you have a good one and especially hard for experts to positively say its good.   It always best to save and wait to buy a higher end one. 

- As a general rule try avoid claws that have matrix glued on them or have seams with matrix.   The matrix is there for only one reason to hid trouble.  Matrix is a red flag, just tread carefully when looking at one of these.  Ask yourself why risk it and buy a potentially problem claw, there are plenty out there that are clean.   

 

PRICE = Preservation (Quality) + Size - Repairs

- Real claws are expensive, simple as that.  So if you see inexpensive big claws there must be a reason unless its the deal of a century and they exist.   Most of the claws I show are in the 1-2K range for 4-6 inches.   

 

Here are a few from the Tucson show to give you an understanding what real ones look like.   Focus on shape, the articulation end, blood grooves and preservation.

 

 These two are clean no matrix, no compression may have been broken and reattached, reasonable preservation.  Nice claws for any collection

 

Higher Grade - Fatter, nice surface finish, good preservation, few if any repairs. 

 

 

Couple of more examples.  Honest merchant shows, some repair and resto.  

 

 

Excellent high end claw around 7 inches very very expensive

 

Fake Claws

These two were laying in the box and the merchant said he just had them fabricated.  They look pretty good to a novice both reasonable size and configuration.  Probably copied from a good one.  

 

Red Flags : Check out the graining its does not follow the curve of the claw but is straight.  Uniform Color and looks too clean.  Finish is flat with no hit of sheen seen on bone.

 

 

Super long ones are the most suspect, here are two in a box.   Unusually long and thin, usually the dorsal curvature is not smooth to the tip has kinks, the preservation is odd, hard to see bone, lots of surface repairs.  These may be composited, faked or combo?  Who knows to risky to find out.

 

 

 

Off an auction site - terrible fake easier to spot- 6.9 inch claw

 

 

One of the hardest items to replicate is the blood groove that is on either side of the claw.  The groove is the widest at the articulation end and slowly tapers to a point to form a channel at the tip that extends outward beyond the dorsal surface.  Here is an example of a perfectly preserved one.

 

 

Here is the tip of the claw from above and you can see the blood groove is just a channel in the claw.  

 

 

Another Characteristic on these claws is that when looked at from the top or bottom they are shaped like an isosceles triangle.   Much bigger at the articulation end than the tip.  Preservation may affect this but most should be tapered.  

 

 

Like most theropods, hand claws vary depending on digit so there will be variations depending on that and the number of different Spinosaurids that exist in Kem Kem.  This is a big unknown and we believe these type of claws all belong to the Spinosaurid family.

 

 But here are a couple more you can check out the blood grooves, articulation and shape 

 

More Examples of Fake Hand Claws:

 

Bottom side is not a smooth curve, blood groove changes size, surface finish is odd not bonelike

 

Carved but with an very poorly shaped deep blood groove

 

Carved in multiple sections and shape is off, front end should not be that curved

 

 

Photo provided by Jim Kirkland

 

Carved, Composited etc

 

Badly carved claw

 

The following are all carved, examine how poorly the blood grooves are made.

 

 

[Darktooth]

@Troodon you seem to really know your stuff. Thanks for this insight!

[HamptonsDoc]

Great post- thanks for the information and pictures!  Glad you were standing next to me last year when I purchased mine! 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Very good.

I'll know what to look out for when i go down south soon! 

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

I have much to learn from you, my friend Troodon! In fact, I learn a lot here every day. Thank you very much for sharing your experience and all your knowledge with us. Huge hug!

[Troodon]

11 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Very good.

I'll know what to look out for when i go down south soon! 

Are you heading into dinosaur country ?

[Tidgy's Dad]

2 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Are you heading into dinosaur country ?

Probably not, more likely trilobite and ammonite areas, but the shops and wholesalers as well as the prep workshops usually have a whole ton of dino stuff too. 

[Troodon]

9 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Probably not, more likely trilobite and ammonite areas, but the shops and wholesalers as well as the prep workshops usually have a whole ton of dino stuff too. 

Enjoy yourself and bring home some nice fossils.

[Tidgy's Dad]

Just now, Troodon said:

Enjoy yourself and bring home some nice fossils.

Thanks, but it won't be til the end of the month or the beginning of next month, so you can't get rid of me quite yet! 

[HamptonsDoc]

What is the largest Spino hand claw ever found?

 

What size range is average and what’s considered exceptionally large and rare?

 

@Troodon

[Troodon]

1 hour ago, HamptonsDoc said:

What is the largest Spino hand claw ever found?

 

What size range is average and what’s considered exceptionally large and rare?

 

@Troodon

No idea what the biggest  one ever found but this is the largest one I've seen, at Tucson,  3 years ago . I think any nice ones over 5" are rare and +6 is exceptionally large.   Quality on claws trumps size, flawless ones like the ones above are super rare and $xxxxx.xx . Avg sold not sure probably  4-5 "   Fakes: 6-8" 

[Phos_01]

I only read about this fantastic topic just now  just randomly found it on the Forum.
Great stuff, will look at this allot upon further looking for a claw. 

[RJB]

I dont remember seeing this when it was first posted.  Very interesting post. 

 

RB

[Fossildude19]

Pinned this topic. Don't know why it wasn't pinned before, but I have rectified that situation. 

 

Thanks Frank,  @Troodon for some more valuable information for Fossil Collectors. 

[Meatasaurus93]

On 2/10/2018 at 1:50 PM, Troodon said:

Here are a few from the Tucson show to give you an understanding what real ones look like.   Focus on shape, the articulation end, blood grooves and preservation.

 

 These two are clean no matrix, no compression may have been broken and reattached, reasonable preservation.  Nice claws for any collection

 

 

Interesting, I would have looked at these and thought they were fake/heavily restored. From my perspective, the blood grooves somewhat resemble carved pieces. The overall shape of both claws just seems kind of off compared to the other examples you posted. Of course, I'm looking at a picture, and you had the opportunity to see them in person, so it's not the same experience.

 

It's why I don't have many claws in my collection. They're a lot harder to shop for than teeth and vertebrae.

 

 

[Troodon]

2 hours ago, Meatasaurus93 said:

 

Interesting, I would have looked at these and thought they were fake/heavily restored. From my perspective, the blood grooves somewhat resemble carved pieces. The overall shape of both claws just seems kind of off compared to the other examples you posted. Of course, I'm looking at a picture, and you had the opportunity to see them in person, so it's not the same experience.

 

It's why I don't have many claws in my collection. They're a lot harder to shop for than teeth and vertebrae.

 

 

The bottom one was not put back together very well and I will say a bit doggie in the way it was done.   I buy very little online, I need to hold and examine these items especially with claws.  I think if you are buying online you should be looking for slam dunk, guaranteed real type material especially from Morocco or have the ability to return it, no question asked. 

[GTS]

@Troodon Thankyou for this!

[The Florida Man]

@Troodon, thank you for the informative post. I was considering buying this claw from a reputable dealer but am now doubting the authenticity. Are you able to give me your thoughts?

[Fossildude19]

5 hours ago, The Florida Man said:

@Troodon, thank you for the informative post. I was considering buying this claw from a reputable dealer but am now doubting the authenticity. Are you able to give me your thoughts?

 

 

FYI, Troodon is no longer participating on the Forum.

 

However, this is a pretty bad fake claw.

I would steer clear of it.

[The Florida Man]

@Fossildude19, thanks for confirming for me. 

[Phos_01]

12 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

FYI, Troodon is no longer participating on the Forum.

And this is a very sad situation for all of us dinosaur enthousiasts. It leaves a lasting emptiness here.

I don't know what had going on, but every time I come to the forum, I miss the critical writing and the knowledge he provided us

I hope he comes back one day, Ill put it up at one of my Christmas wishes.