MeargleSchmeargl Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I look at many a shell that I walk upon on a beach or creek, even at established fossil sites, and I wonder if some of these shells are fossil or not. This is particularly an issue at a place like the Calvert cliffs, where modern shells could wash from the Potomac just as easily as any fossil shells, and what makes it worse is that fossil and modern shells many times even have very similar color in places like river locations. As I am not a huge expert in fossil shells (or in particular, Bivalves as this would be the most common occurrence of confusion, being the most common modern shells on the banks of rivers), what are the big distinguishing features between modern and fossil shells? Every single fossil you see is a miracle set in stone, and should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 For Me it is whether it is set in rock or not, for others it is more an age thing. Can be very hard to identify a fossil of an extant species that has a long history. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Sometimes you can’t tell if a shell is old or not. When you go to the beach some shells are modern and many are hundreds to thousands of years old and they all look alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*THEO* Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Some fossil bivalve shells can preserve their original color markings for millions of years and this makes the differentiation between fossil and non-fossil shells even harder. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinosaurus Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 @Max-fossils knows a lot about fossil shells. maybe he can tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) @Spinosaurus thanks for tagging me @MeargleSchmeargl, to answer your question, I am afraid that there is not really a way to distinguish them... I have asked myself the same question several times... This topic might be interesting to you still: Usually though, some indications can help to show that, though they are not 100% definitive. If the shells are embedded in matrix, or at high altitudes/far away from the sea, then they are likely fossils. Then again, I have in my collection a modern shell in matrix, and a modern shell found at about 300m elevation... So all rules have exceptions unfortunately. The best indications are the local ones, so the ones specific to the location of where you are hunting. But in general, it's really a tough job to separate the modern shells from the fossil ones... Which is especially annoying for a seashell amateur like me! Luckily, bivalves and other seashells, even when modern, are still awesome Best regards, Max Edit: one thing though that IS all-defining: does the shell species appear in the fossil record or not? Or is it extinct? Because if the shell is extinct (or locally extinct) then your shell is definitely fossil. Or if the shell doesn't appear in the fossil record, it is definitely modern. Then again you have to be pretty skilled at identifying the species immediately (which actually becomes pretty easy the more you hunt at the site, as you become more familiar with the local species). Edited February 12, 2018 by Max-fossils 7 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I guess it's just practice, experience and getting to know the localities. You get a 'feeling' for what's right and wrong. But in some cases I don't think there's any way you can tell. Unless you've got access to dating equipment! 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: I guess it's just practice, experience and getting to know the localities. You get a 'feeling' for what's right and wrong. Very true. For me on the Zandmotor, there are both modern and Eemian shells, many of the same species. It can be incredibly hard to tell the difference between modern and fossil. Well, there are some tricks, but they don't work perfectly well. But now I can often recognize or feel whether a shell is fossil or not. Most of the time... The real struggle for me still are the oysters, the fossil ones and the modern ones are IDENTICAL 2 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 15 hours ago, MeargleSchmeargl said: This is particularly an issue at a place like the Calvert cliffs, Very much an issue. Only way to be sure is taking into account what is found in chunks of matrix. The cool thing with some is the original shell material is preserved, especially on some Chesapectans. Awe inspiring to hold the original shell of a 5 million year old creature. Sometimes you’ll get this with the Devonian too (need to be very lucky for this, @Rocky Stoner found one). “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 @WhodamanHD @MeargleSchmeargl just out of curiosity, what other fossil shell species (apart from Chesapecten nefrens and Ecphora gardnerea) do you find at Calvert? Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeargleSchmeargl Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Max-fossils said: @WhodamanHD @MeargleSchmeargl just out of curiosity, what other fossil shell species (apart from Chesapecten nefrens and Ecphora gardnerea) do you find at Calvert? Found a historical president (*cough cough* Jeffersonius *cough cough*) Every single fossil you see is a miracle set in stone, and should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, MeargleSchmeargl said: Found a historical president (*cough cough* Jeffersonius *cough cough*) Like this one? (Chesapecten jeffersonius) 1 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Max-fossils said: @WhodamanHD @MeargleSchmeargl just out of curiosity, what other fossil shell species (apart from Chesapecten nefrens and Ecphora gardnerea) do you find at Calvert? Ecphora Gardenerae ecphora quadricostrata, panopea Americana, ostrea sp., Isognomon sp., chesacardium, glycemeris, Venus clams, turritella, the list goes on (and on and on). A pretty diverse fauna in the Shelly beds (Choptank FM beds below): 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 20 hours ago, WhodamanHD said: Ecphora Gardenerae ecphora quadricostrata, panopea Americana, ostrea sp., Isognomon sp., chesacardium, glycemeris, Venus clams, turritella, the list goes on (and on and on). A pretty diverse fauna in the Shelly beds (Choptank FM beds below): 7 Cool! Thanks Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeargleSchmeargl Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 11:56 AM, Max-fossils said: Like this one? (Chesapecten jeffersonius) Right on the money. Every single fossil you see is a miracle set in stone, and should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 31 minutes ago, MeargleSchmeargl said: Right on the money. Whoa, very cool! Would love to see a picture of yours Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeargleSchmeargl Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Whoa, very cool! Would love to see a picture of yours Don't have images, but it ain't the most complete specimen nonetheless... Every single fossil you see is a miracle set in stone, and should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just now, MeargleSchmeargl said: Don't have images, but it ain't the most complete specimen nonetheless... Ah, ok. Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 @doushantuo, I have looked at your post and tried to understand it's lesson. Could you explain it to me? Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 And provide proper attribution. ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) Minn,let me get back to you on that,because i've tried to find the particulars with regard to that picture,and I couldn't, which annoys me no end. If the moderating staff decides to remove this picture..... edit: Minn,i could try to inform you in a way NOT based on that figure Edited October 17, 2021 by doushantuo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, doushantuo said: Minn,let me get back to you on that,because i've tried to find the particulars with regard to that picture,and I couldn't, which annoys me no end. If the moderating staff decides to remove this picture..... edit: Minn,i could try to inform you in a way NOT based on that figure Part of picture is in Seth’s blog with a link. https://mobile.twitter.com/sethfinnegan1 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) Thanks,DPS. Personally ,I wouldn't have thought of the Finnegan angle,and i hadn't yet searched the net or my pc for the taxa shown Edited October 17, 2021 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) The picture is almost certainly from: Tomašových, A., Gallmetzer, I., Haselmair, A. and Zuschin, M. (2021), Inferring time averaging and hiatus durations in the stratigraphic record of high-frequency depositional sequences. Sedimentology. https://doi.org/10.1111/sed.12936 Edited October 17, 2021 by DPS Ammonite My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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