Brownies Beach Sperm Whale/Cetecean Fossils

[Williamb55]

As request by WhodamanHD, here is a post of my recent sperm whale tooth find from Brownies Beach over the weekend and some other cetacean teeth. I also included a very cool red squalodon tooth I found at Stratford hall along with another tooth which I believe is also Squalodon. I like how the Squalodon tooth is split in half, I wouldn't have found it if I didn't notice what looked like a root of a tooth underwater. I also included a cool dolphin vertebrae I found at Stratford Hall

Edited February 13, 2018 by Williamb55

[Williamb55]

Here are some other Cetacean teeth I found over the weekend

[Miocene_Mason]

6 minutes ago, Williamb55 said:

WhodamanTV

I’d watch that! 

nice teeth and vert!

[Williamb55]

1 minute ago, WhodamanHD said:

I’d watch that! 

nice teeth and vert!

Oh haha I misread the name 

[ynot]

Nice finds.

[Tidgy's Dad]

A very nice little collection of cetacean pieces!

[Nimravis]

I really like the dolphin vert- thanks for posting your finds.

[hokiehunter]

Awesome sperm whale tooth.  Think your squalodon from Stratford is actually a worn piece of croc tooth though.  Not much squalodon in that section.  What little you find usually comes from way upriver and is worn but it does exist.  Still think croc on your though.

[sixgill pete]

I agree with @hokiehunter that the "red" tooth is croc, not squalodon. The whale tooth is fantastic, that is a great find.

[MarcoSr]

On 2/12/2018 at 10:15 PM, Williamb55 said:

 I also included a very cool red squalodon tooth I found at Stratford hall along with another tooth which I believe is also Squalodon. I like how the Squalodon tooth is split in half, I wouldn't have found it if I didn't notice what looked like a root of a tooth underwater.

 

You won't find Squalodon at Stratford Hall.  The Miocene Formations aren't old enough.

 

Marco Sr.

[Williamb55]

2 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

 

You won't find Squalodon at Stratford Hall.  The Miocene Formations aren't old enough.

 

Marco Sr.

So is it a croc tooth as mentioned by hokiehunter? It sure is from a big animal.

 

[Rowboater]

Nice finds!  Really like the vertebra

[MarcoSr]

14 hours ago, Williamb55 said:

So is it a croc tooth as mentioned by hokiehunter? It sure is from a big animal.

 

 

It is hard to tell for sure with the specimen so worn and damaged from pictures.

 

This picture alone looks like croc:

 

 

However the croc teeth that I have don't typically wear like in the below picture at the very top.  Plus the taper of the tooth doesn't look right for croc but this could be caused by tooth wear.  In this picture the tooth looks more like the tip of a sperm whale tooth.

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

[hokiehunter]

20 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

 

You won't find Squalodon at Stratford Hall.  The Miocene Formations aren't old enough.

 

Marco Sr.

 

I was under the same impression regarding Squalodon but then saw this regarding at squalodon find at Westmoreland.  Says a partial Skull was found at Westmoreland State Park in the early 90s.  Agree with your call on Sperm whale though.  It's really hard to say for sure whether the piece above is croc or sperm whale but I'm leaning back toward worn sperm whale at second glance.

 

http://www.calvertmarinemuseum.com/DocumentCenter/View/653

[MarcoSr]

3 hours ago, hokiehunter said:

 

I was under the same impression regarding Squalodon but then saw this regarding at squalodon find at Westmoreland.  Says a partial Skull was found at Westmoreland State Park in the early 90s.  Agree with your call on Sperm whale though.  It's really hard to say for sure whether the piece above is croc or sperm whale but I'm leaning back toward worn sperm whale at second glance.

 

http://www.calvertmarinemuseum.com/DocumentCenter/View/653

 

I am aware of that specimen.  I work with Dr. Weems, a USGS emeritus, on dating the cliffs in WSP, Stratford Hall, Stratford Harbour and other cliffs on the Virginia side of the Potomac River. The cliffs at WSP at the base are older, especially in one small area, than those at the base in Startford Hall.  The specimen at the link is the only Squalodon specimen ever confirmed from the area that I'm aware of.  Dr. Weems and I have discussed it several times because Squalodon should not be in that time frame..  George Powell also found an associated specimen minus the skull and jaws in the base clay from the area.  He believes that it is Squalodon.  But with ribs and verts only that is a tough call.  Maybe his specimens were related to that skull.  I've collected the area for 45 years and never found, or saw or heard of another squalodon specimen from the area.  Several Squalodon specimens were found  just up-river of Washington's Birthplace in situ in the base of the cliffs which several researchers thought extended the time range for Squalodon in MD/VA because they thought the base of the cliffs was younger than it really is.  Dr. Weems had pollen and other analysis done on the base of these cliffs and they turned out to be zone 10/11 which was within the time range known for Squalodon.  Those are the only Squalodon specimens ever reported on that part of the Potomac River.  There are a good number of Squalodon specimens reported from the area of the Potomac River around the Nice Bridge.  But those formations are much older, zone 3 of the Fairhaven and zone 4 of the Calvert.  That one WSP specimen in the link is a real mystery.

 

Marco Sr.

[hokiehunter]

Great info Marco.  Thank you.  When I was looking into this a while ago I also noted that the Smithsonian has a Westmoreland specimen that was collected in 1969.  It says it is out of Zone 14 though so could be a mistake based on Dr. Weems reasearch?

 

https://collections.nmnh.si.edu/search/paleo/?ark=ark:/65665/391a2f68ace3740e8a6f14f6fa4569b3a

[MarcoSr]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:20 AM, hokiehunter said:

Great info Marco.  Thank you.  When I was looking into this a while ago I also noted that the Smithsonian has a Westmoreland specimen that was collected in 1969.  It says it is out of Zone 14 though so could be a mistake based on Dr. Weems reasearch?

 

https://collections.nmnh.si.edu/search/paleo/?ark=ark:/65665/391a2f68ace3740e8a6f14f6fa4569b3a

 

The base of the cliffs at WSP can be either zone 14 or zone 15 of the Calvert Formation.  So if the specimen in 1969 and the specimen in the early 1990s and George Powell's specimens are indeed Squalodon it would extend their time range in MD/VA as far as I know.  I've seen George Powell's associated verts and ribs.  Next time I see Rob I'll see if he wants to check out the specimens at the Smithsonian and CMM.  I want to verify the specimens are really true Squalodon and to see if all three occurrences in the area could be from the same animal.  There have been a number of changes in cetacean genera since the 1990s.  There was a cetacean called prosqualodon (it's name has since been changed) that can be found in the WSP/Stratford Hall area.  Researchers previously had tried to extend the Squalodon time range using true Squalodon specimens found at Wakefield (upriver from Washington's birthplace) believing the formations were younger then they actually are.  Through Dr. Weems the formations have been dated as zone10/11.  It is really strange with all of the collectors in the WSP/Stratford Hall area for many years, they are not finding at least some loose Squalodon teeth over time.  My sons and I have a good number of what was called prosqualodon teeth from the area.

 

Marco Sr.