lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hey guys, first real post/question... I have a very small and modest collection, and the only thing that I have not truly been able to identify are my 3 Hell Creek Crocodilian Teeth... I know from investigation that there are 3 basic types of Crocodilia found in the formations there... Thoracosaurus neocesariensis - gavialoid crocodile Borealosuchus sternbergii - crocodile Brachychampsa montana - alligatoroid crocodile My teeth are definitely from the same species... I'm not sure if they are from mature of juvenile however... Judging by research I've done, I doubt they are Brachychampsa... I also don't think they have the correct look for Borealosuchus.... Are they Thoracosaurus??? Or is it some unknown Leidyosuchus? Any help would be well received.... Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 @Harry Pristis Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Welcome to TFF! Maybe @jpc or @Troodon can help. Nice teeth. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm far from being knowledgeable in crock material from the Hell Creek but can add the following. Thoracosaurusis teeth very rare from the Hell Creek Formation since it's a marine crocodyliform and little is known about them but my understanding is that they are thin, pointed teeth with fine striations which is not a match to your recurved teeth. The most common crock teeth in the Hell Creek are the other two species you mentioned and your teeth are juvenile forms of one of those species. Most everyone selling describes your teeth as Borealosuchus sternbergii and Brachychampsa are the bulbous pommel shaped ones. Unfortunately I believe those bulbous teeth are really just its lateral and posterior teeth. I am aware of a published study of isolated shed teeth from Montana's Hell Creek in 2012 which concluded that the anterior concial teeth are indistinguishable from one another. Factoring in what juvie's anterior teeth looked like on these two species not sure you will get a good scientifically supported answer. I'm inclined to label yours B. sternbergii just my gut feeling. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hmmm, these teeth were rather pricey, which kinda lead me away from B. sternbergii... Borealosuchus teeth also look alot different than what I have.... I haven't seen any Borealosuchus that look like these... Thanks for the info guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanDye Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Troodon said: I'm far from being knowledgeable in crock material from the Hell Creek but can add the following. Thoracosaurusis teeth very rare from the Hell Creek Formation since it's a marine crocodyliform and little is known about them but my understanding is that they are thin, pointed teeth with fine striations which is not a match to your recurved teeth. The most common crock teeth in the Hell Creek are the other two species you mentioned and your teeth are juvenile forms of one of those species. Most everyone selling describes your teeth as Borealosuchus sternbergii and Brachychampsa are the bulbous pommel shaped ones. Unfortunately I believe those bulbous teeth are really just its lateral and posterior teeth. I am aware of a published study of isolated shed teeth from Montana's Hell Creek in 2012 which concluded that the anterior concial teeth are indistinguishable from one another. Factoring in what juvie's anterior teeth looked like on these two species not sure you will get a good scientifically supported answer. I'm inclined to label yours B. sternbergii just my gut feeling. Well said. Edited February 19, 2018 by RyanDye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm not up on the comparative dentistry of juvie to adult, but ur answer seems spot on, but I cannot find a correctly identified juvie Boreal that matches the color and shape.... I think ur spot on the I'll never really know.... thanks again Troodon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Can we assume that if they are juvenile Borealsuchus, that their value would be in a higher price range?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Troodon comes through again. I am not sure that isolated pointy teeth or Borealosucjhus and Brachychampsa can be identified to genus. They are croc teeth in my collection. As for their value, we don't do appraisals here, and if you paid a lot, that doesn't mean they are more rare... Having collected a ton of croc teeth from the Lance Fm and Hell Creek , I can say that the big one is on the upper size range of common pointed croc teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 54 minutes ago, lesofprimus said: Can we assume that if they are juvenile Borealsuchus, that their value would be in a higher price range?? Croc teeth from the Hell Creek are fairly common juvie's are even more available. Value on all these type of teeth are pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, jpc said: Troodon comes through again. I am not sure that isolated pointy teeth or Borealosucjhus and Brachychampsa can be identified to genus. They are croc teeth in my collection. As for their value, we don't do appraisals here, and if you paid a lot, that doesn't mean they are more rare... Having collected a ton of croc teeth from the Lance Fm and Hell Creek , I can say that the big one is on the upper size range of common pointed croc teeth. Thank you, great info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Troodon said: Croc teeth from the Hell Creek are fairly common juvie's are even more available. Value on all these type of teeth are pretty low. Appreciate the info once again, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 For final viewing, known Borealosuchus teeth compared to my 3 unknown croc teeth... Supposedly from the same dig site areas, why are they so very different looking? Or am I missing the whole juvenile/adult thing? There is an edge/ridge on all 3 mine, but the Borealo don't seem to have this edge... Final expert opinions guys??? Its rather frustrating having fossils that are just extinct "Croc teeth", but they are over 60 million years old so..... lol yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 Would it help if I were to take much better closeups of my teeth, or is this a dead end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Yes they are all the same, the bigger ones are just older animals and used, why the blunt wear pattern on the tip. It's not uncommon on isolated teeth not to have a species name tied to it. It happens all of the time with Theropod teeth. Most Tyrannosaur teeth in Alberta or Montana except the Hell Creek/Lance Formations it's very difficult to distinguish between species and they are given a family name Tyrannosaurid indet.. In Moroccos Kem Kem basin the best we can do is put family names to some of the teeth most are Theropod indeterminate. Join the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 OK, cool... Thanks again for the support for this honest to Zuul new guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 As troodon said, there is really nothing wrong with just calling them 'croc'. There is actually more wrong with giving them a genus, when there is no basis for IDing one genus form another. Try Iding Paloecene mammals someday.... "mammal". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Nice 'croc' teeth! Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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