Littlefoot Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Calling all poop people! This is from Brownie's Beach, so Miocene era. I actually thought it was dog poop at first, and had some choice thoughts about the person who didn't clean up after his/her dog. Then I looked closer, poked it, and discovered it was rock, so into my pocket it went. I find the whole field of coprolites to be really tough with IDing, as no two poops seem to be alike. I do a lot of my IDing by cross-comparing pictures online using my trusty pal Google, and this is one where I'm not finding anything that gives me an "aha!" moment. But it looks like feces, and I'm guessing shark based on where I found it. I'm not licking it because if someone comes back and tells me it's really dog poop then -- ugh! Let's not go there! So help me, experts of the Fossil Forum! You're my only hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 You got to lick it... Seriously. It does resemble a coprolite but let other more knowledgeable members speak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanDye Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 More often than not coprolites can only be classified very broadly, unfortunately I don't know any experts on it. If this does end up being a genuine coprolite your original thesis would most likely be correct if shark coprolite is common in the location of where you found it. Lets see what others say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 @Carl, @GeschWhat Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Looks like a gastropod internal mold to me. 6 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I completely agree with @Tidgy's Dad on this. Internal mold of a gastropod. Worn and not complete. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I’d go so far as to say it’s an Ecphora steinkern. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefoot Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Thank you so much for your feedback! I can see gastropod in the shape, and I think that's a really good ID for this one! Not as amusing as coprolite, sadly, but safer for licking! WhodamanHD, I'm not able to find pictures of Ecphora steinkern online. Do you have any you could share, or links you could provide? I'd love to see it if you have anything! I was able to find pictures of Ecphora Gardnerae (which happens to be the state fossil for Maryland -- I didn't know that!). Is that similar to Ecphora steinkern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Littlefoot said: WhodamanHD, I'm not able to find pictures of Ecphora steinkern online. Do you have any you could share, or links you could provide? I'd love to see it if you have anything! A steinkern is the technical term for an internal mold of a shelled creature. As you know, an Ecphora is a murex snail (and a very fragile prize indeed, the little brown shell pieces on the beach are crushed ones). Here is a picture of an Ecphora in a boulder, you can kinda see the steinkern inside it. That’s the closest picture I have. Just imagine the inside of an Ecphora being filled with sediment, and yours somehow hardened up as they sometimes do. Steinkerns are much more common for Turritella, clams, and other bivalves but every now and then you get an Ecphora one. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefoot Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 YES! That's a fantastic explanation! THANK YOU SO MUCH, WhodamanHD! I think that ID is really spot on -- Ecphora steinkern! Thank you, all off you, so much for helping me with this mystery item! And I learned a whole lot as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Littlefoot said: YES! That's a fantastic explanation! THANK YOU SO MUCH, WhodamanHD! No problem, anytime. And you can call me Mason “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yep, I would say gastropod steinkern as well. One thing that distinguishes this from a spiral coprolite is that the width of material tapers down at the end. If it was a spiral coprolite, it would be like a ribbon or rope of a consistent width wrapped around itself. There are variations, but that is the basic principle. When in doubt...lick it! 2 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefoot Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 GeschWhat, that helps a lot with helping to ID coprolite versus gastropod. Thank you! And one of these days, I may reach the licking stage, but right now, I'm still in the newbie "you want me to lick WHAT?!" stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yep, I'm fully on board with the snailheads. That's a snail steinkern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 from Tulane Studies (number 7 is an ecphora steinkern PRELIMINARY BIOSTRATIGRAPHY AND MOLLUSCAN FAUNA OF THE GOOSE CREEK LIMESTONE OF EASTERN SOUTH CAROLINA MATTHEW R. CAMPBELL GF,OLOGY DF,PARTMENT THE COLLEGE OF WILLIAM AND MARY WILLIAMSBURG. VIRGINIA 2318.5 and LYLE D. CAMPBELL DIVISION OF NATURAL SCIENCES UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA SPARTANBURG. SOUTH CAROLINA 29303 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Specimen 7, plate 5 (Ecphora bradleyae Petuch - Size : 34 mm; Museum Catalog number ChM PI 12425) looks like a weathered specimen, not a steinkern. M. R. Campbell, L. D. Campbell. 1995. Preliminary Biostratigraphy and Molluscan Fauna of Goose Creek Limestone of Eastern South Carolina. Tulane Studies in Geology and Paleontology 27(1-4): 53-100 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefoot Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Thank you, Plax and abyssunder! Just out of curiosity, how would one tell the difference between a steinkern and a specimen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I steinkern is the internal mold of the animal where the shell is broken off or dissolved away as here with a cockle,Cardium sp. The shape and appearance is different to the real shell as in the same genus here: With experience you will learn to tell most of them quite easily. 5 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 23 hours ago, abyssunder said: Specimen 7, plate 5 (Ecphora bradleyae Petuch - Size : 34 mm; Museum Catalog number ChM PI 12425) looks like a weathered specimen, not a steinkern. M. R. Campbell, L. D. Campbell. 1995. Preliminary Biostratigraphy and Molluscan Fauna of Goose Creek Limestone of Eastern South Carolina. Tulane Studies in Geology and Paleontology 27(1-4): 53-100 good point particularly since the shell is calcitic and preserved when aragonitic shells are dissolved. I think the OPs gastropod steinkern is from one of the more common aragonite shelled gastropods. Am not seeing the open whorls of an Ecphora reflected in the gastropod steinkern. I appreciate the correction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The actual shell will be hollow. They also tend to be a brown color. 2 hours ago, Plax said: Am not seeing the open whorls of an Ecphora reflected in the gastropod steinkern. Can you explain what you mean by open whorls? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Each convolution of the shell is a whorl. Some snails have more open whorls and some tight. It has a flattened or depressed area on top of each whorl. Looking at the picture of the Ecphora I posted from the literature the whorls would not be as tightly wrapped or I guess they'd have space between them once the thick calcitic shell was gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I agree with Plax on this. While it is definitely a gastropod internal mold (or steinkern) I am 99.9999999% sure it IS NOT ecphora. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 @Plax thanks for the explanation. The shell gets pretty tight towards the top (with thin walls at this size) in the ones of seen (the species in the appear is not one I’ve come across). But I do see what your saying, and it may very well be the case. @sixgill pete that’s a very high certainty, do you cite the same reason as @Plax? I admit I’m a bit skeptical, maybe an example of a better fit from the Calvert Formation make me leave the Ecphora hypothesis. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefoot Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: With experience you will learn to tell most of them quite easily. Thank you for your explanation! I look forward to learning the ways of the fossil hunters! Right now, I'm just lurking around the site, trying to see the same things the pros do! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Littlefoot said: Thank you for your explanation! I look forward to learning the ways of the fossil hunters! Right now, I'm just lurking around the site, trying to see the same things the pros do! Me too. I am hardly a pro myself, just a keen collector trying to learn a little. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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