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Thoughts? Bite Marks?


Doraaman

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If that’s not predation, Mother Nature is really doing her best to confuse me.

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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Absolutely. I can think of no other plausible genesis of the gouges. 

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

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11 hours ago, Nimravis said:

Looks like it to me or that animal ran into a Prehistoric Outboard Motor.

or a modern one! "Bites" look very sharp for such a well rounded chunk of bone. Not saying it isn't predation just saying I don't know how ya'll are so sure.

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15 minutes ago, Plax said:

or a modern one! "Bites" look very sharp for such a well rounded chunk of bone. Not saying it isn't predation just saying I don't know how ya'll are so sure.

I am not saying that I am positive, but it does have the telltale signs of predation. By study predation marks in recent bones, a correlation and hypothesis can be drawn on this piece.

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2 hours ago, Nimravis said:

I am not saying that I am positive, but it does have the telltale signs of predation. By study predation marks in recent bones, a correlation and hypothesis can be drawn on this piece.

I hear you. Am not saying anyone is wrong about this I just can't quantify the characteristic that makes this predation. I wouldn't doubt it for a second, for instance, if the bone was dug from an insitu situation and those were ancient epibionts. If it was found in a shallow marine setting and those are modern epibionts I'd say it points to prop marks though it could still be ancient predation. Am reminded of native american artifacts found in cultivated fields with plow strikes. If the consensus is predation I'll go along with that!

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1 hour ago, Plax said:

I hear you. Am not saying anyone is wrong about this I just can't quantify the characteristic that makes this predation. I wouldn't doubt it for a second, for instance, if the bone was dug from an insitu situation and those were ancient epibionts. If it was found in a shallow marine setting and those are modern epibionts I'd say it points to prop marks though it could still be ancient predation. Am reminded of native american artifacts found in cultivated fields with plow strikes. If the consensus is predation I'll go along with that!

I hear you, Plax. I guess they could be manmade somehow, but either way I guess we can say that the bone has suffered sharp trauma. The burial context would need to be clarified for more confidence either way.

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10 hours ago, Plax said:

rounded chunk of bone.

Perhaps the bites were even deeper originally and when the bone was worn the sharp ends were left. Not trying to discount you by the way, just throwing out an explanation:D

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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Always a difficult question to answer even where it seems obvious.  Very cool bone.

What has me puzzled is that some of the gouges are wide, flat and if it was due to predation my sense would be sharper ones since the odds of multiple bits in the same location are slim.  Looking for more V shaped gouges not flat ones.  I know it's predator dependent but is there any evidence of serrations marks in the gouges

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17 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Nice piece! :)

I think predation marks is the most likely possibility. 

Not disagreeing with you Tidgy's Dad but why are you saying it is the most likely possibility? Still trying to get in my head what characteristics make it so. As I've said before I don't know that these are prop marks I just can't see why they couldn't be. I'm not trying to be right or wrong as my opinion is open to the evidence. I hope that Doraaman replies to this post saying it was dug from an undisturbed shell bed in the bank of a river.

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I agree the in situ information would help. 

But I have seen very similar predation marks on fossil bone, and these do appear to have some evidence of infilling, possibly calcite, that would likely have occured over the years after death.  

Other causes of these may indeed be possible, but i still feel that bite marks are the most likely explanation. 

But I am, of course, often wrong. :D

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1 hour ago, Troodon said:

I know it's predator dependent but is there any evidence of serrations marks in the gouges

Good point. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and put under a microscope. Of course photos can be misleading, and this could be just the calcite deposit, but this looks a little like serrations.

Possible Serrations.jpg

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14 minutes ago, GeschWhat said:

Good point. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and put under a microscope. Of course photos can be misleading, and this could be just the calcite deposit, but this looks a little like serrations.

 

Good eye but like you said needs to be cleaned up and looked under some magnifications.  Hopefully Doraaman can shed some light on this and where it was found.   I run across this with dinosaur bones, there you are looking for punctures and serration marks to be defining versus just lateral gouges unless its obvious.

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3 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I agree the in situ information would help. 

But I have seen very similar predation marks on fossil bone, and these do appear to have some evidence of infilling, possibly calcite, that would likely have occured over the years after death.  

Other causes of these may indeed be possible, but i still feel that bite marks are the most likely explanation. 

But I am, of course, often wrong. :D

Me too!

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Maybe these two can have similar bite marks.

 

083C78A2-A559-4F4A-9EE5-A4DE034D047E.jpeg.a6af4d215371f7708240b42de1e6937e.thumb.jpg.48de2b0d83548e69db047928e43b1424.jpgattakk.jpg.69fbfd5d2ce1382e21cc46b8cba034d5.jpg

comparative picture from here

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Predation marks also tend to be slightly curved, any sign of that here?

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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On 2/22/2018 at 7:35 AM, Plax said:

Not disagreeing with you Tidgy's Dad but why are you saying it is the most likely possibility? Still trying to get in my head what characteristics make it so. As I've said before I don't know that these are prop marks I just can't see why they couldn't be. I'm not trying to be right or wrong as my opinion is open to the evidence. I hope that Doraaman replies to this post saying it was dug from an undisturbed shell bed in the bank of a river.

Found in 30’ of water. 

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On 2/22/2018 at 8:59 AM, Troodon said:

Good eye but like you said needs to be cleaned up and looked under some magnifications.  Hopefully Doraaman can shed some light on this and where it was found.   I run across this with dinosaur bones, there you are looking for punctures and serration marks to be defining versus just lateral gouges unless its obvious.

I’ll clean up and post some updates 

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