Doraaman Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Possible predations? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doraaman Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doraaman Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 If that’s not predation, Mother Nature is really doing her best to confuse me. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Looks like it to me or that animal ran into a Prehistoric Outboard Motor. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Sure looks like it to me. Awesome find! Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Absolutely. I can think of no other plausible genesis of the gouges. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Same here: Mayhem indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Nimravis said: Looks like it to me or that animal ran into a Prehistoric Outboard Motor. or a modern one! "Bites" look very sharp for such a well rounded chunk of bone. Not saying it isn't predation just saying I don't know how ya'll are so sure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Plax said: or a modern one! "Bites" look very sharp for such a well rounded chunk of bone. Not saying it isn't predation just saying I don't know how ya'll are so sure. I am not saying that I am positive, but it does have the telltale signs of predation. By study predation marks in recent bones, a correlation and hypothesis can be drawn on this piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Very nicfe find. It looks like teeth marks to me. Either way it is cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Nimravis said: I am not saying that I am positive, but it does have the telltale signs of predation. By study predation marks in recent bones, a correlation and hypothesis can be drawn on this piece. I hear you. Am not saying anyone is wrong about this I just can't quantify the characteristic that makes this predation. I wouldn't doubt it for a second, for instance, if the bone was dug from an insitu situation and those were ancient epibionts. If it was found in a shallow marine setting and those are modern epibionts I'd say it points to prop marks though it could still be ancient predation. Am reminded of native american artifacts found in cultivated fields with plow strikes. If the consensus is predation I'll go along with that! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Plax said: I hear you. Am not saying anyone is wrong about this I just can't quantify the characteristic that makes this predation. I wouldn't doubt it for a second, for instance, if the bone was dug from an insitu situation and those were ancient epibionts. If it was found in a shallow marine setting and those are modern epibionts I'd say it points to prop marks though it could still be ancient predation. Am reminded of native american artifacts found in cultivated fields with plow strikes. If the consensus is predation I'll go along with that! I hear you, Plax. I guess they could be manmade somehow, but either way I guess we can say that the bone has suffered sharp trauma. The burial context would need to be clarified for more confidence either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Nice piece! I think predation marks is the most likely possibility. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Plax said: rounded chunk of bone. Perhaps the bites were even deeper originally and when the bone was worn the sharp ends were left. Not trying to discount you by the way, just throwing out an explanation “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Always a difficult question to answer even where it seems obvious. Very cool bone. What has me puzzled is that some of the gouges are wide, flat and if it was due to predation my sense would be sharper ones since the odds of multiple bits in the same location are slim. Looking for more V shaped gouges not flat ones. I know it's predator dependent but is there any evidence of serrations marks in the gouges 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Nice piece! I think predation marks is the most likely possibility. Not disagreeing with you Tidgy's Dad but why are you saying it is the most likely possibility? Still trying to get in my head what characteristics make it so. As I've said before I don't know that these are prop marks I just can't see why they couldn't be. I'm not trying to be right or wrong as my opinion is open to the evidence. I hope that Doraaman replies to this post saying it was dug from an undisturbed shell bed in the bank of a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I agree the in situ information would help. But I have seen very similar predation marks on fossil bone, and these do appear to have some evidence of infilling, possibly calcite, that would likely have occured over the years after death. Other causes of these may indeed be possible, but i still feel that bite marks are the most likely explanation. But I am, of course, often wrong. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Troodon said: I know it's predator dependent but is there any evidence of serrations marks in the gouges Good point. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and put under a microscope. Of course photos can be misleading, and this could be just the calcite deposit, but this looks a little like serrations. 2 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: Good point. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and put under a microscope. Of course photos can be misleading, and this could be just the calcite deposit, but this looks a little like serrations. Good eye but like you said needs to be cleaned up and looked under some magnifications. Hopefully Doraaman can shed some light on this and where it was found. I run across this with dinosaur bones, there you are looking for punctures and serration marks to be defining versus just lateral gouges unless its obvious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: I agree the in situ information would help. But I have seen very similar predation marks on fossil bone, and these do appear to have some evidence of infilling, possibly calcite, that would likely have occured over the years after death. Other causes of these may indeed be possible, but i still feel that bite marks are the most likely explanation. But I am, of course, often wrong. Me too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Maybe these two can have similar bite marks. comparative picture from here 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Predation marks also tend to be slightly curved, any sign of that here? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doraaman Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 On 2/22/2018 at 7:35 AM, Plax said: Not disagreeing with you Tidgy's Dad but why are you saying it is the most likely possibility? Still trying to get in my head what characteristics make it so. As I've said before I don't know that these are prop marks I just can't see why they couldn't be. I'm not trying to be right or wrong as my opinion is open to the evidence. I hope that Doraaman replies to this post saying it was dug from an undisturbed shell bed in the bank of a river. Found in 30’ of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doraaman Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 On 2/22/2018 at 8:59 AM, Troodon said: Good eye but like you said needs to be cleaned up and looked under some magnifications. Hopefully Doraaman can shed some light on this and where it was found. I run across this with dinosaur bones, there you are looking for punctures and serration marks to be defining versus just lateral gouges unless its obvious. I’ll clean up and post some updates 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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