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JohnBrewer

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Any ideas on this guys? I guess it's some type of bryozoa/bryozoan (dunno if it's one beast or lots of 'em) It's like an undulating mat. The 'mat' varies in thickness from, I guess, 2mm -5mm. The round things are in relief not indented.

Era: Silurian

Location: Wrens Nest, Dudley, UK

 

@TqB

 

 

mes1.thumb.jpg.87d465c30c110a5351cc7b4c46b293b2.jpg

 

 

Still016.thumb.jpg.16d2a03e81a11c71e7e8987a489e477b.jpg

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Hey John, 

Can we see a shot of the entire rock? 

It looks similar to/reminds me of placoderm armor.

 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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looks more like a coral to me. Maybe Heliolites sp.

Heliolites_sp.__Silurian-Wenlock__Visby-beds__Ireviken__Gotland__Sweden_3.jpg

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen

No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go.

" I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes

"can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks

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I agree with Herb, it's a tabulate coral and Heliolites fits the location, i have several.  

Life's Good!

Tortoise Friend.

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16 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Hey John, 

Can we see a shot of the entire rock? 

It looks similar to/reminds me of placoderm armor.

 

It’s really just a random lump sorted square. To my knowledge no fish have ever been found at this site. Will take more pics later. 

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If the round, dark circles are raised it's odd preservation for a coral from there, even a weathered one.

If they are weathered out sediment infills of pores that might fit a heliolitid, perhaps Propora which has about the right proportional spacing.

 

It looks more like a ramose, encrusting colony of something else though.

 

Is your scale definitely right, which would make the pores about 1mm across?  - too large for most bryozoans although Favositella (encrusting or massive bryozoan) chambers can be 0.75mm or more (can't find a maximum in Snell's monograph...).

 

Edit: If the size is right, a weathered Favositella fits quite well...

 

Second edit: I prefer the stromatoporoid Labechia now - see post about six below... :blush:

Tarquin

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1 hour ago, TqB said:

If the size is right, a weathered Favositella fits quite well...

Scale is on lower right. My judgement on scale is terrible, but I think I'm with Tim on placoderm  armor. 

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I'm not an expert on these, I could go placoderm as well, but I did learn an important lesson last season while looking for such things. I found something incredibly similar and interestingly enough, it turned out to be the inverse of a fan-like bryozoan. We were so excited by the texture, then we found another piece where the bryozoan was flaking off, leaving a similar pattern on the rock under it. Just a thought to consider.

Jay A. Wollin

Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve

Hamburg, New York, USA

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The location/age is wrong, but it reminds me of this piece I have that was found on the Isle of Wight (Cretaceous, Wealden, Wessex Fm, Brook Bay). If the little black spots are protrusions, it could be the same thing. I had cleaned what I thought was matrix from some on the edge (see photos). A friend (and fish/coprolite guy) at the London Museum thought replied to my inquiry as follows:

 

"The strange bone fragment certainly looks like a bit of chimaeroid tooth plate.  I would not try to prep off any of the white stuff because it is the dentine.  The little tubes are indurated mineral-filled pores in the compact dentine.  The only thing that does not hang together is the provenance.  The Wealden is fresh-water, not beloved by chimaeroids.  It looks a bit beaten up and most likely came from the Aptian around Compton Bay a mile or so to the NW."

IMG_1944.jpg

IMG_1945.jpg

IMG_5333.jpg

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Wouldn't that put the Silurian age in serious question ?  Or do chimaeroids go that far back ?

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2 hours ago, JohnBrewer said:

It’s really just a random lump sorted square. To my knowledge no fish have ever been found at this site. Will take more pics later. 

Still, we might see something that strikes a chord or rings a bell. ;) 

Also does it wrap around the piece entirely? 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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It was reminding me of something but I've only just remembered - I think the stromatoporoid Labechia is a very likely candidate.

(I believe that placoderms, or any other vertebrates, are unknown from the Wenlock Limestone - please correct if I'm wrong -  whereas stromatoporoids are very common.) 

 

From this forum post:  Wenlock Edge (thanks, @Brittle Star!):

5a9a569150cd7_ScreenShot2018-03-03at07_57_01.png.af7d38686acaa59f1bdc48c6245c30a1.png

 

And from http://fossiilid.info/1390:

5a9a5b34a06d6_ScreenShot2018-03-03at08_20_17.thumb.png.74e88589019f616d96cf5c1d0b4cc8cb.png

 

 

 

 

 

Tarquin

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On 02/03/2018 at 7:40 PM, Herb said:

looks more like a coral to me. Maybe Heliolites sp.

Herb, the texture is dimple like rather than indented.

 

On 02/03/2018 at 7:30 PM, Fossildude19 said:

Can we see a shot of the entire rock? 

Pics below

 

On 02/03/2018 at 10:03 PM, GeschWhat said:

If the little black spots are protrusions, it could be the same thing.

The protrusions in mine are rounded rather than flat-topped

 

On 03/03/2018 at 8:10 AM, TqB said:

It was reminding me of something but I've only just remembered - I think the stromatoporoid Labechia is a very likely candidate.

That pretty much looks like what I have. The pimples are about the same size, 0.75mm.

 

IMG_7695.thumb.JPG.bda15c2d79a6342dcebedfa8cc204dcd.JPGIMG_7697.thumb.JPG.674186a9e8865552bcede2d7e3c029bd.JPGIMG_7698.thumb.JPG.9b7a7b3701f187258f0d3b2cb375ae46.JPGIMG_7699.thumb.JPG.bc716d1c81cb0266e37dfe3971150f7a.JPGIMG_7700.thumb.JPG.adc4406178b226f0646490cf5820dd10.JPGIMG_7702.thumb.JPG.45ccc609da9a1ec298be09c43c5fc31e.JPG

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2 hours ago, TqB said:

With those new pics, I'm sure it's Labechia. Quite a tasty stromatoporoid. :)

Thanks Tarquin. It is a nice chunk and I love the undulating surface. 

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3 hours ago, JohnBrewer said:

Herb, the texture is dimple like rather than indented.

 

Pics below

 

The protrusions in mine are rounded rather than flat-topped

 

That pretty much looks like what I have. The pimples are about the same size, 0.75mm.

 

IMG_7695.thumb.JPG.bda15c2d79a6342dcebedfa8cc204dcd.JPGIMG_7697.thumb.JPG.674186a9e8865552bcede2d7e3c029bd.JPGIMG_7698.thumb.JPG.9b7a7b3701f187258f0d3b2cb375ae46.JPGIMG_7699.thumb.JPG.bc716d1c81cb0266e37dfe3971150f7a.JPGIMG_7700.thumb.JPG.adc4406178b226f0646490cf5820dd10.JPGIMG_7702.thumb.JPG.45ccc609da9a1ec298be09c43c5fc31e.JPG

Very nice piece! :)

Life's Good!

Tortoise Friend.

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Labechia sp. looks like this.

O-099-Labechia-huronensis.jpg

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen

No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go.

" I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes

"can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks

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17 hours ago, Herb said:

Labechia sp. looks like this.

We have to remember these are typically closer to being a colony than an individual. They may sometimes hire a differently minded city planner. :)

Edit: Community is a better term for this thought.

x2 I confused stromatoporoid with stromatolite and only caught it when reading doushantuo's post. :doh!:

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7 hours ago, Herb said:

Labechia sp. looks like this.

O-099-Labechia-huronensis.jpg

 

Different species I guess, and researchers are always disagreeing about what to put in a genus.

This is a type specimen of Labechia (Monticularia) conferta (Lonsdale) from the Wenlock Limestone of Shropshire, on this British Geological Survey site  

 http://www.3d-fossils.ac.uk/fossilType.cfm?typSampleId=25526

 

5a9d155fbb070_ScreenShot2018-03-05at09_57_12.png.f251ac6a4b6e1a97e231e3891995d23d.png

Tarquin

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In the genus Labechia, B. and H., the radial pillars reach their maximum of development, being exceedingly stout, pointed at their free ends, and, as a rule,

continuous from the epitheca to the upper surface (Fig. 5). In this genus, also, as to a less extent in some species of Clathrodictyon, adjoining pillars may become

closely united by their sides, thus giving rise to short flexuous rows, or sometimes (as in L. alveolaris, n. sp., from the Wenlock Limestone) to a reticulated tissue not

very unlike that of such " Tabulate Corals " as Alveolites.

(H.Alleyne Nicholson/A Monograph of British Stromatoporoidea)

 

 

specicgghkkitopugyytykkanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

specicgghkkitopugyytykkanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

 

specicgghkkitopugyytykkanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

specicgghkkitopugyytykkanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

7-15: L. conferta

Manten(1971) remarked that biohermal Labechia is "variable"

 

below:From Rosen's(transl. mine):On the nature of Stromatoporoids and the preservation of keratinous tissues in sponges in the fossil condition  

 

specicgghkkitopugyytykkanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:03 PM, GeschWhat said:

The location/age is wrong, but it reminds me of this piece I have that was found on the Isle of Wight (Cretaceous, Wealden, Wessex Fm, Brook Bay). If the little black spots are protrusions, it could be the same thing. I had cleaned what I thought was matrix from some on the edge (see photos). A friend (and fish/coprolite guy) at the London Museum thought replied to my inquiry as follows:

 

"The strange bone fragment certainly looks like a bit of chimaeroid tooth plate.  I would not try to prep off any of the white stuff because it is the dentine.  The little tubes are indurated mineral-filled pores in the compact dentine.  The only thing that does not hang together is the provenance.  The Wealden is fresh-water, not beloved by chimaeroids.  It looks a bit beaten up and most likely came from the Aptian around Compton Bay a mile or so to the NW."

IMG_1944.jpg

IMG_1945.jpg

IMG_5333.jpg

Hi,

 

Last year I picked up a piece from Yaverland IOW and it was ID'd as turtle, different to the ones that you get around Yarmouth, this pic is pre-prepping. Name Helochelydra nopcsai. Hope I have spelt that right.

 

turtle shell Helochelydra nopcsai 2.jpg

Never ask a starfish for directions

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1 hour ago, Brittle Star said:

Hi,

 

Last year I picked up a piece from Yaverland IOW and it was ID'd as turtle, different to the ones that you get around Yarmouth, this pic is pre-prepping. Name Helochelydra nopcsai. Hope I have spelt that right.

 

turtle shell Helochelydra nopcsai 2.jpg

Your picture is a little blurry, but yours looks more like John's specimen. Have you prepped it yet?

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