Jump to content
JohnBrewer

Bryozoa?

Recommended Posts

JohnBrewer

Any ideas on this guys? I guess it's some type of bryozoa/bryozoan (dunno if it's one beast or lots of 'em) It's like an undulating mat. The 'mat' varies in thickness from, I guess, 2mm -5mm. The round things are in relief not indented.

Era: Silurian

Location: Wrens Nest, Dudley, UK

 

@TqB

 

 

mes1.thumb.jpg.87d465c30c110a5351cc7b4c46b293b2.jpg

 

 

Still016.thumb.jpg.16d2a03e81a11c71e7e8987a489e477b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haravex

Wish I could help with the identification but this sadly is not my field I feel maybe @Tidgy's Dad might have an idea about this however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fossildude19

Hey John, 

Can we see a shot of the entire rock? 

It looks similar to/reminds me of placoderm armor.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Herb

looks more like a coral to me. Maybe Heliolites sp.

Heliolites_sp.__Silurian-Wenlock__Visby-beds__Ireviken__Gotland__Sweden_3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tidgy's Dad

I agree with Herb, it's a tabulate coral and Heliolites fits the location, i have several.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnBrewer
16 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Hey John, 

Can we see a shot of the entire rock? 

It looks similar to/reminds me of placoderm armor.

 

It’s really just a random lump sorted square. To my knowledge no fish have ever been found at this site. Will take more pics later. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnBrewer

I did wonder if it was a coral. Couldn’t find anything in my books or online that fits imagewise tho. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TqB

If the round, dark circles are raised it's odd preservation for a coral from there, even a weathered one.

If they are weathered out sediment infills of pores that might fit a heliolitid, perhaps Propora which has about the right proportional spacing.

 

It looks more like a ramose, encrusting colony of something else though.

 

Is your scale definitely right, which would make the pores about 1mm across?  - too large for most bryozoans although Favositella (encrusting or massive bryozoan) chambers can be 0.75mm or more (can't find a maximum in Snell's monograph...).

 

Edit: If the size is right, a weathered Favositella fits quite well...

 

Second edit: I prefer the stromatoporoid Labechia now - see post about six below... :blush:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rockwood
1 hour ago, TqB said:

If the size is right, a weathered Favositella fits quite well...

Scale is on lower right. My judgement on scale is terrible, but I think I'm with Tim on placoderm  armor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevonianDigger

I'm not an expert on these, I could go placoderm as well, but I did learn an important lesson last season while looking for such things. I found something incredibly similar and interestingly enough, it turned out to be the inverse of a fan-like bryozoan. We were so excited by the texture, then we found another piece where the bryozoan was flaking off, leaving a similar pattern on the rock under it. Just a thought to consider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GeschWhat

The location/age is wrong, but it reminds me of this piece I have that was found on the Isle of Wight (Cretaceous, Wealden, Wessex Fm, Brook Bay). If the little black spots are protrusions, it could be the same thing. I had cleaned what I thought was matrix from some on the edge (see photos). A friend (and fish/coprolite guy) at the London Museum thought replied to my inquiry as follows:

 

"The strange bone fragment certainly looks like a bit of chimaeroid tooth plate.  I would not try to prep off any of the white stuff because it is the dentine.  The little tubes are indurated mineral-filled pores in the compact dentine.  The only thing that does not hang together is the provenance.  The Wealden is fresh-water, not beloved by chimaeroids.  It looks a bit beaten up and most likely came from the Aptian around Compton Bay a mile or so to the NW."

IMG_1944.jpg

IMG_1945.jpg

IMG_5333.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rockwood

Wouldn't that put the Silurian age in serious question ?  Or do chimaeroids go that far back ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fossildude19
2 hours ago, JohnBrewer said:

It’s really just a random lump sorted square. To my knowledge no fish have ever been found at this site. Will take more pics later. 

Still, we might see something that strikes a chord or rings a bell. ;) 

Also does it wrap around the piece entirely? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TqB

It was reminding me of something but I've only just remembered - I think the stromatoporoid Labechia is a very likely candidate.

(I believe that placoderms, or any other vertebrates, are unknown from the Wenlock Limestone - please correct if I'm wrong -  whereas stromatoporoids are very common.) 

 

From this forum post:  Wenlock Edge (thanks, @Brittle Star!):

5a9a569150cd7_ScreenShot2018-03-03at07_57_01.png.af7d38686acaa59f1bdc48c6245c30a1.png

 

And from http://fossiilid.info/1390:

5a9a5b34a06d6_ScreenShot2018-03-03at08_20_17.thumb.png.74e88589019f616d96cf5c1d0b4cc8cb.png

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rockwood

Didn't see that coming, but it sure seems right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnBrewer
On 02/03/2018 at 7:40 PM, Herb said:

looks more like a coral to me. Maybe Heliolites sp.

Herb, the texture is dimple like rather than indented.

 

On 02/03/2018 at 7:30 PM, Fossildude19 said:

Can we see a shot of the entire rock? 

Pics below

 

On 02/03/2018 at 10:03 PM, GeschWhat said:

If the little black spots are protrusions, it could be the same thing.

The protrusions in mine are rounded rather than flat-topped

 

On 03/03/2018 at 8:10 AM, TqB said:

It was reminding me of something but I've only just remembered - I think the stromatoporoid Labechia is a very likely candidate.

That pretty much looks like what I have. The pimples are about the same size, 0.75mm.

 

IMG_7695.thumb.JPG.bda15c2d79a6342dcebedfa8cc204dcd.JPGIMG_7697.thumb.JPG.674186a9e8865552bcede2d7e3c029bd.JPGIMG_7698.thumb.JPG.9b7a7b3701f187258f0d3b2cb375ae46.JPGIMG_7699.thumb.JPG.bc716d1c81cb0266e37dfe3971150f7a.JPGIMG_7700.thumb.JPG.adc4406178b226f0646490cf5820dd10.JPGIMG_7702.thumb.JPG.45ccc609da9a1ec298be09c43c5fc31e.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TqB

With those new pics, I'm sure it's Labechia. Quite a tasty stromatoporoid. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnBrewer
2 hours ago, TqB said:

With those new pics, I'm sure it's Labechia. Quite a tasty stromatoporoid. :)

Thanks Tarquin. It is a nice chunk and I love the undulating surface. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tidgy's Dad
3 hours ago, JohnBrewer said:

Herb, the texture is dimple like rather than indented.

 

Pics below

 

The protrusions in mine are rounded rather than flat-topped

 

That pretty much looks like what I have. The pimples are about the same size, 0.75mm.

 

IMG_7695.thumb.JPG.bda15c2d79a6342dcebedfa8cc204dcd.JPGIMG_7697.thumb.JPG.674186a9e8865552bcede2d7e3c029bd.JPGIMG_7698.thumb.JPG.9b7a7b3701f187258f0d3b2cb375ae46.JPGIMG_7699.thumb.JPG.bc716d1c81cb0266e37dfe3971150f7a.JPGIMG_7700.thumb.JPG.adc4406178b226f0646490cf5820dd10.JPGIMG_7702.thumb.JPG.45ccc609da9a1ec298be09c43c5fc31e.JPG

Very nice piece! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Herb

Labechia sp. looks like this.

O-099-Labechia-huronensis.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rockwood
17 hours ago, Herb said:

Labechia sp. looks like this.

We have to remember these are typically closer to being a colony than an individual. They may sometimes hire a differently minded city planner. :)

Edit: Community is a better term for this thought.

x2 I confused stromatoporoid with stromatolite and only caught it when reading doushantuo's post. :doh!:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TqB
7 hours ago, Herb said:

Labechia sp. looks like this.

O-099-Labechia-huronensis.jpg

 

Different species I guess, and researchers are always disagreeing about what to put in a genus.

This is a type specimen of Labechia (Monticularia) conferta (Lonsdale) from the Wenlock Limestone of Shropshire, on this British Geological Survey site  

 http://www.3d-fossils.ac.uk/fossilType.cfm?typSampleId=25526

 

5a9d155fbb070_ScreenShot2018-03-05at09_57_12.png.f251ac6a4b6e1a97e231e3891995d23d.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brittle Star
On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:03 PM, GeschWhat said:

The location/age is wrong, but it reminds me of this piece I have that was found on the Isle of Wight (Cretaceous, Wealden, Wessex Fm, Brook Bay). If the little black spots are protrusions, it could be the same thing. I had cleaned what I thought was matrix from some on the edge (see photos). A friend (and fish/coprolite guy) at the London Museum thought replied to my inquiry as follows:

 

"The strange bone fragment certainly looks like a bit of chimaeroid tooth plate.  I would not try to prep off any of the white stuff because it is the dentine.  The little tubes are indurated mineral-filled pores in the compact dentine.  The only thing that does not hang together is the provenance.  The Wealden is fresh-water, not beloved by chimaeroids.  It looks a bit beaten up and most likely came from the Aptian around Compton Bay a mile or so to the NW."

IMG_1944.jpg

IMG_1945.jpg

IMG_5333.jpg

Hi,

 

Last year I picked up a piece from Yaverland IOW and it was ID'd as turtle, different to the ones that you get around Yarmouth, this pic is pre-prepping. Name Helochelydra nopcsai. Hope I have spelt that right.

 

turtle shell Helochelydra nopcsai 2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GeschWhat
1 hour ago, Brittle Star said:

Hi,

 

Last year I picked up a piece from Yaverland IOW and it was ID'd as turtle, different to the ones that you get around Yarmouth, this pic is pre-prepping. Name Helochelydra nopcsai. Hope I have spelt that right.

 

turtle shell Helochelydra nopcsai 2.jpg

Your picture is a little blurry, but yours looks more like John's specimen. Have you prepped it yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×