-Andy- Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Hi all, I have a mysterious croc tooth that needs identifying. It measures 7cm in a straight line, with a crown length of 3cm. It was found in a backwater near Savannah, Georgia. It came out of an old stream bed eroding out. The area is normally a Miocene deposit where there are Gavialosuchus americanus but the original owner (who is a fossil croc expert) sincerely believes it's something else as there are supposedly earlier deposits there as well. He thinks it is from the lineage of Deinosuchus. Has anyone seen such croc/alligator teeth in Georgia? Has anyone heard of late Cretaceous deposits near Savannah? Thank you. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indominus rex Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Deinosuchus? But don't take my word on that. But that's a monster tooth, nice find. Life started in the ocean. And so did my interest in fossils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoppeHunting Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I’m no expert on this, but what I can say is that I think it’s more likely from a croc larger than Gavialosuchus/Thecachampsa solely based on size. This would be an abnormally large tooth from that genus. Deinosuchus seems feasible. The Hunt for the Hemipristine continues! ~Hoppe hunting!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The geological map would argue against anything cretaceous near Savannah. I think most of that portion of the state was under water during the cretaceous How do these Gavialosuchus teeth compare to your tooth? http://blogs.cofc.edu/macebrownmuseum/2016/04/08/friday-fossil-feature-an-investi-gator-of-the-oligocene-of-south-carolina/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 @Jesuslover340 might know. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 That's a terrific tooth! I have no idea what type of croc it's from but it's a lovely specimen! Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 oh, oh, oh... I got this one! It is a ... big daddiosuchus Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Troodon said: The geological map would argue against anything cretaceous near Savannah. I think most of that portion of the state was under water during the cretaceous. I agree. The geological maps I've seen indicate that area is far more likely of Quaternary age. If I had seen the crown by itself without locality data, I would definitely think it's a Deinosuchus. Now I am curious to see if anyone have seen these kinda tooth from non-Cretaceous deposits. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Georgia County Map and Geologic Map: Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 @-Andy- That is a gorgeous specimen you have there. Quite robust. It definitely looks like the Deinosuchus teeth we find in a Cretaceous lag deposit in SE NC. Mrs.SA2 and I have 15 or so in our personal collection. @Daleksec and @sixgill pete have collected the NC site and have some in their collections as well. I really can't think of anything else it could be, but I've never fossil hunted in GA, and other than Coastal Plains, I don't know much about its geology. Given what you "probably" have, the location you found it and the known geology, I believe there is definitely some scientific significance,/ importance to your find. I recommend contacting some museums and universities for their opinions. My first thought is @Boesse of course. Even though he's a whale guy he may know a good reptile person. University of Florida has really good reptile folks and there is Dr. Hastings at the VA Museum of Natural History, who is a reptile specialist (and also graduated from the U of FL program.) Keep us in the loop as you learn more on your mystery. It's very exciting! Cheers, SA2 Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I agree that @Boesse would be the person to offer an authoritative opinion. Personally I think Troodon has it with his link. The Cretaceous is deeply buried in the Savannah area, and there are no fossiliferous Cretacous exposures upriver, so despite the similarities I think Deinosuchus can be discounted. That assumes that the locality info is correct of course. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paciphacops Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Nice find. I'm really glad these big crocs became extinct! "Don't force it, just use a bigger hammer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Not a tooth. That’s a witches finger as anyone can see. Nice tooth! John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Gavialosuchus? Is it known from the Miocene / Pliocene? There are some very large croc teeth found at Lee Creek and they are Thecachampsa as far as I know. I have also seen a Thecachampsa tooth this size from the Belgrade Quarry in North Carolina. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Hey all - this tooth certainly falls within the range of variation for Gavialosuchus. @sixgill pete - Gavialosuchus and Thecachampsa are the same animal, with some using one name over the other. Deinosuchus teeth, if memory serves, have strong longitudinal fluting. I've seen others claim to have discovered "Deinosuchus" fossils from Savannah, including a large premaxilla, but all seem to be consistent with Gavialosuchus just like we get here in Charleston. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Wow.. Savannah, like the city directly above Jacksonville on the Atlantic... You definitely grow those gators big up there... Congratulations on a fantastic find The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Boesse said: Hey all - this tooth certainly falls within the range of variation for Gavialosuchus. @sixgill pete - Gavialosuchus and Thecachampsa are the same animal, with some using one name over the other. Deinosuchus teeth, if memory serves, have strong longitudinal fluting. I've seen others claim to have discovered "Deinosuchus" fossils from Savannah, including a large premaxilla, but all seem to be consistent with Gavialosuchus just like we get here in Charleston. Bobby Thanks for the info! I searched online for Gavialosuchus teeth pictures, and found this: The rear teeth on this Gavialosuchus jaw looks like a match for mine too. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 any chance the provenance could be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesuslover340 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Provenance is everything...especially with crocodilian/crocodylomorph teeth, as they're not specialized like mammalian teeth. A croc tooth from one area can look EXACTLY like a croc tooth from a completely different age and location and yet, be from two completely different species. About the only way you can pin down species or even genus for crocodilians is knowing the provenance and subsequently knowing the species that have been described from the location from associated material such as a skull/jaw with intact teeth. "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."-Romans 14:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 On March 9, 2018 at 7:21 AM, SailingAlongToo said: @-Andy- That is a gorgeous specimen you have there. Quite robust. It definitely looks like the Deinosuchus teeth we find in a Cretaceous lag deposit in SE NC. Mrs.SA2 and I have 15 or so in our personal collection. @Daleksec and @sixgill pete have collected the NC site and have some in their collections as well. I really can't think of anything else it could be, but I've never fossil hunted in GA, and other than Coastal Plains, I don't know much about its geology. Given what you "probably" have, the location you found it and the known geology, I believe there is definitely some scientific significance,/ importance to your find. I recommend contacting some museums and universities for their opinions. My first thought is @Boesse of course. Even though he's a whale guy he may know a good reptile person. University of Florida has really good reptile folks and there is Dr. Hastings at the VA Museum of Natural History, who is a reptile specialist (and also graduated from the U of FL program.) Keep us in the loop as you learn more on your mystery. It's very exciting! Cheers, SA2 If Jim Knight is at the Charleston Museum, he would be someone to contact. He was at one of the SC museums years ago. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Harvey Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Any chance it could be a sea lion canine? I pull this photo from the internet. Mel10-23-10Allodesmus Sp..JPG.url Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 3/11/2018 at 12:38 AM, Boesse said: Hey all - this tooth certainly falls within the range of variation for Gavialosuchus. @sixgill pete - Gavialosuchus and Thecachampsa are the same animal, with some using one name over the other. Deinosuchus teeth, if memory serves, have strong longitudinal fluting. I've seen others claim to have discovered "Deinosuchus" fossils from Savannah, including a large premaxilla, but all seem to be consistent with Gavialosuchus just like we get here in Charleston. Bobby Hi @Boesse, does this look like a Cetacean tooth to you? I emailed Dr David Schwimmer, and he replied this: Interesting material, but definitely not from the Cretaceous. The isolated tooth is probably not crocodylian, but rather from a cetacean: the proportions of crown and root really don't match any I've seen, and the crown curvature is too extreme to be a posterior croc tooth. I'm not expert on Miocene whales, but I know there were a number of toothed whales and dolphins around at the time. You might check with the Calvert Museum for a better ID. I trust Dr Schwimmer in croc matters, and I would like your input as well seeing as you have experience with whales. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 4/6/2018 at 8:56 AM, M Harvey said: Any chance it could be a sea lion canine? I pull this photo from the internet. Mel10-23-10Allodesmus Sp..JPG.url I don't think it is. But I am unsure now as the original ID of croc is in question. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 hours ago, -Andy- said: check with the Calvert Museum for a better ID. Stephen Godfrey from the CMM might be a good person to contact, as he is also an expert on ceteceans. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 @Troodon @ynot @Jesuslover340 @Boesse @WhodamanHD @siteseer @sixgill pete @SailingAlongToo @HoppeHunting I sent pics of my Georgia tooth to the Calvert Marine Museum. Dr. Stephen J. Godfrey and the other paleo experts replied. They say it's definitely not a cetacean. They believe it's Thecachampsa which they find there. I will label it Gavialosuchus for now. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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