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Devonian Coral? From Resteigne


Max-fossils

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Max-fossils

Hi all,

 

On my trip to Resteigne last weekend, 

I namely found this thing. At first I thought it was some kind of coral, but others are having their doubts. So now me too! 

Here is the location info:

Resteigne quarry, Belgium

Jemelle Formation (mostly)

Eifelian, middle Devonian; ~ 390 mya 

 

I started prepping it a little bit, and noticed that this matrix was a little bit softer than the other matrix... So maybe this is from another formation. If I remember correctly, this was one of the few finds from the second level (the levels of the quarry are ground, 1st, 2nd and 3rd level. So maybe the different levels indicate a different formation), opposed to the majority of other finds which were from the first level (and have a much harder matrix). 

 

So. What do you think it is?

 

Looking forward to your answers!

 

Max

 

IMG_6087.JPG

IMG_6088.JPG

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Max-fossils

IMG_6089.JPG

IMG_6090.JPG

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Max-fossils

IMG_6091.JPG

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I can see it being a barely preserved fish spine.

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Max-fossils
22 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

I can see it being a barely preserved fish spine.

Hahaha, I saw that too. It does kinda look like a vertebral column. I am considering it (and definitely hoping it is!), but I don't think it's that... 

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Tidgy's Dad

No, it's a horn coral, or solitary rugose coral if you like. 

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I see no evidence to support either of the previous suggested IDs.

 

I think it is a burrow cast.

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FranzBernhard

"...and noticed that this matrix was a little bit softer than the other matrix... So maybe this is from another formation. If I remember correctly, this was one of the few finds from the second level (the levels of the quarry are ground, 1st, 2nd and 3rd level. So maybe the different levels indicate a different formation)."

 

Its not necessarily from a different formation. The "Plabutsch-Formation" from the other tread is in most part a hard, dark limestone, but some layers and patches contain clay minerals which makes them softer and also more susceptible for wheatering. Most of the naturally 3D preped specimen are from these softer layers/patches.

 

Do you have some literature about the Jemelle Formation?

 

Franz Bernhard

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To call it a fish spinal column would require much clearer evidence.

To call it a burrow cast the evidence needed is intrinsically subtle.

The idea that it is the poorly preserved theca of a horn coral that had lived in a dynamic environment does seem to fit nicely in between.

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3 hours ago, Rockwood said:

The idea that it is the poorly preserved theca of a horn coral

Where are the septa?

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I'm in the burrow cast camp.

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1 hour ago, ynot said:

Where are the septa?

Few nubs right here.

IMG_6091.thumb.JPG.008145223e94dedc94c6415837bda184_LI.jpg

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This area appears to show enough information consistent with it being coral to tip the scale that direction as well.

IMG_6088.thumb.JPG.7b9f607e38cb2411f04b1d0f2e6b6678_LI.jpg

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Cephalopod cast, similar to this?

 

Image result for cephalopod fossil

 

See http://fossiilid.info/57 for more inspiration

 

15 hours ago, ynot said:

I see no evidence to support either of the previous suggested IDs.

 

I think it is a burrow cast.

 

I have never seen a burrow cast with these waves before, have you seen specimens before or can you refer me to any literature?

I don't mean to come off as doubting the authenticity of your claim I just think it is a very interesting subject, and would like to feed my unrelenting curiosity :P

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Phevo said:

Cephalopod cast, similar to this?

Or this, in the degree of preservation.

Seems like another possibility.

IMG_4572a.jpg

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Another possibility might be a poorly preserved glass sponge, something in the line of Hydnoceras.

 

9593371_450_450_676_0_fit_0_a0e8b359d59b1945cc7b289311a2e123.jpg.58ae6e7466803d11c5672cbd958bc4d4.jpg

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Some great guesses! This is a tough one to determine. I think at this point we'll need to see more detailed images, and possibly in better light without the plastic background glare.

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On 9.3.2018 at 9:53 PM, Max-fossils said:

IMG_6089.JPG

 

You'll have to scrub and scratch off a lot more matrix on the sides and dig down to expose the septa at the orifice for a better chance of identification, but this photo convinces me that this is probably a rugose coral. Acanthophyllum sp. is one that is common there and it comes in all shapes and sizes.

 

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6 hours ago, Phevo said:

I have never seen a burrow cast with these waves before, have you seen specimens before or can you refer me to any literature?

I based My opinion on the process of elimination. I can see no features that lead Me to any other conclusion.

It does not have the bone structure expected from a fish spine. (Or any other bone.)

It does not have any "shell" structures that I can see.

There are no septa or other expected coral structures that I can see.

I can not see any substantial difference between the attached matrix and the "fossil". (grain or color.)

It could be a cast of a piece of wood or a burrow cast. 

Burrow casts are much more common, hence My opinion is  -- a burrow cast.

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'Have a theory here that might tony ynot around.

This would represent the horn at the stage when it could no longer resurrect it's theca and began to remove sediment with it's tentacles in a stationary race with sedimentation.

 

 

IMG_6089.thumb.JPG.a49482814160ae150394e88f6384d611_LI.jpg

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Max-fossils

@Rockwood @Tidgy's Dad @ynot @FranzBernhard @Kane @Pachy @Phevo @abyssunder @Ludwigia

Well thanks everyone for the replies! Very interesting suggestions!

 

So, to resume, the 3 main possibilities so far are:

 

1) rugose coral

2) burrow cast

3) cephalopod cast

 

Personally, I can't say which one is right. Everyone seems to have very valid points on why they think it's this, and many of the pictures shared do share common points with mine. I will try to get some of the matrix prepped off asap (which might be in a bit of time, seeing the loads of school work I have (which is also why I am only looking back at this now)) and take some better pictures then. 

 

Best regards,

 

Max

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