African Abelisaur Teeth; Rugops Only???

[lesofprimus]

I have just added 3 Abelisaur teeth to my collection, all from the same area, Ifezouane Formation Red Sandstone Beds, KemKem, Ouzina....

So not Phosphates, therefore....

 

As I'm aware, the only Abelisaur found in this area was Rugops, but is there a possibility of it being another of the Abelisauridae Family??

Thanks for any help guys!

 

 

[gigantoraptor]

Rugops is only known from Niger. There are no described abelisaurs in the KemKem Beds.

 

Greetings

[lesofprimus]

'Smaller abelisaur fossils have been previously found by palaeontologists, but this find shows how truly huge these flesh eating predators had become,' said Chiarenza, co-author of the study published today in the journal Peer J.

'Their appearance may have looked a bit odd as they were probably covered in feathers with tiny, useless forelimbs, but make no mistake they were fearsome killers in their time.'

The bone in question came from North Africa, which at that time was a lush savannah covered in rivers and mangrove swamps, the perfect place for hunting aquatic animals like turtles, crocodiles, large fish and other dinosaurs. 

The fossil originated from a sedimentary outcrop in Morocco called the Kem Kem Beds, which are well known for an unusual abundance of giant predatory dinosaur fossils.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3469411/Meat-eating-dinosaur-long-BUS-discovered-fossil-draw-forgotten-about.html#ixzz59Yv5LAJI
 

[ynot]

Nice teeth.

@Troodon, @-Andy-, or @hxmendoza may be able to help with ID.

[gigantoraptor]

17 minutes ago, lesofprimus said:

'Smaller abelisaur fossils have been previously found by palaeontologists, but this find shows how truly huge these flesh eating predators had become,' said Chiarenza, co-author of the study published today in the journal Peer J.

'Their appearance may have looked a bit odd as they were probably covered in feathers with tiny, useless forelimbs, but make no mistake they were fearsome killers in their time.'

The bone in question came from North Africa, which at that time was a lush savannah covered in rivers and mangrove swamps, the perfect place for hunting aquatic animals like turtles, crocodiles, large fish and other dinosaurs. 

The fossil originated from a sedimentary outcrop in Morocco called the Kem Kem Beds, which are well known for an unusual abundance of giant predatory dinosaur fossils.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3469411/Meat-eating-dinosaur-long-BUS-discovered-fossil-draw-forgotten-about.html#ixzz59Yv5LAJI
 

I didn't say they aren't found in the KemKem beds, I only said they are not described. That way, until further research, it's impossible to give it a species or even genus name. I think you should label it as 'Abelisaur indet.'

 

Greetings

[*THEO*]

The holotype of Rugops come from the Echkar formation of Niger which is early cenomanian in age and also contain Spinosaurus and Carcharodontosaurus.

I've read that the Ifezouane Formation is also early cenomanian in age so yes your teeth are likely from Rugops.

[Runner64]

57 minutes ago, *THEO* said:

The holotype of Rugops come from the Echkar formation of Niger which is early cenomanian in age and also contain Spinosaurus and Carcharodontosaurus.

I've read that the Ifezouane Formation is also early cenomanian in age so yes your teeth are likely from Rugops.

Cannot be definite thought, I don't think we could draw that conclusion yet or in the future.  Even if Rugops was found in the Kem Kem we would need to find skeletal and skull material to see if there were any morphological differences that separate the two.  There very well could be another abelisaurid found in these two formations that have not been discovered and described yet.  The best ID for abelisaurid teeth from Kem Kem is Abelisauridae indet.

[Troodon]

Agree with the other comments, the current thinking is that there are multiple Abelsaurids in the Kem Kem one small and one large bodied one like Runner 64 said.  Until more material is found we do not know if its the same as the Niger taxon and it's a bit premature to call those teeth anything but Abelsaurid indet.  The Spinosaurid in the Echkar Fm is called Spinosaurid indet and the Carch is a different species than the Kem Kem.  So let's not get ahead of ourselves and make assumptions that are not supported by science.

 

[lesofprimus]

Thank you once again guys....

[-Andy-]

Abelisaurid indet. sp. is the only thing you can put for now.

[lesofprimus]

4 hours ago, Runner64 said:

Abelisauridae indet.

 

3 hours ago, Troodon said:

Abelsaurid indet.

 

5 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

I think you should label it as 'Abelisaur indet.'

And...... Here's where my noobishness comes into play...

 

Indent. is abbreviated for?

 

I would suppose that Abelisauridae, Abelsaurid and Abelisaur are correct, but DO NOT call it a Abelisaurus.... Correct?

 

[lesofprimus]

 
   

Abelisaurus Arcovenator Aucasaurus Bayosaurus Carnotaurus Compsosuchus Ekrixinatosaurus Ilokelesia   Ive checked through this listing of Abelisaurs, and none of them, barring Rugops primus, venture into the Morocco/Africa area...   Now, Deltadromeus on the other hand....

Indosaurus Indosuchus Majungasaurus Rajasaurus Rugops Vitakridrinda Xenotarsosaurus

[lesofprimus]

Abelisauroidea

Eoabelisaurus Ozraptor Betasuchus?  Noasauridae   Deltadromeus? Gualicho? Laevisuchus Ligabueino?  Elaphrosaurinae Limusaurus Elaphrosaurus Spinostropheus Noasaurinae Masiakasaurus Noasaurus Velocisaurus Abelisauridae   Chenanisaurus Indosuchus Lametasaurus Kryptops Rugops Tarascosaurus Vitakridrinda?  Majungasaurinae Arcovenator Genusaurus Indosaurus Majungasaurus Rajasaurus  Brachyrostra   Dahalokely Ekrixinatosaurus Ilokelesia Rahiolisaurus Skorpiovenator Xenotarsosaurus  Furileusaura   Carnotaurus Pycnonemosaurus Quilmesaurus  Viavenator Abelisaurinae Abelisaurus Aucasaurus

[Runner64]

1 hour ago, lesofprimus said:

 

 

And...... Here's where my noobishness comes into play...

 

Indent. is abbreviated for?

 

I would suppose that Abelisauridae, Abelsaurid and Abelisaur are correct, but DO NOT call it a Abelisaurus.... Correct?

 

Indent. Is abbreviated for indeterminate which means it’s an abealisauridae but cannot be narrowed down. Abelisauridae is the family name for the group of dinosaurs known as abelisaurids. The group includes dinosaurs like Carnotaurus, abelisaurus, rugops, and majungasaurus to name a few popular ones. Which brings me to the point that Abelisaurus comahuensus is a genus meaning that it is a species. It is found in Argentina.

[lesofprimus]

Thanks man...

[LordTrilobite]

The teeth from Kem Kem have sometimes been described as cf. Rugops primus because the teeth themselves are very similar. This means they think it's a possibility that this species was present there but more information is needed.

 

So far only a partial jaw bone and a femur have been described. No name has been attached to it yet. Here's the name of the paper that describes the jaw. Luckily this includes some in situ teeth. Other than that we don't know a whole lot about the Kem Kem Abelisaurids. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there are more than one species or even genus present.

 

RECORD OF ABELISAURIDAE (DINOSAURIA: THEROPODA) FROM THE CENOMANIAN OF MOROCCO

[Haravex]

Thank you for this post this is the first time I have seen this, for anyone who could not get access to the main file (its behind a pay-wall from what i can see) here is an image showing the maxilla and a brief write up on it.

[lesofprimus]

Nice article. 

[Fullux]

On 3/12/2018 at 5:13 PM, Troodon said:

Agree with the other comments, the current thinking is that there are multiple Abelsaurids in the Kem Kem one small and one large bodied one like Runner 64 said.  Until more material is found we do not know if its the same as the Niger taxon and it's a bit premature to call those teeth anything but Abelsaurid indet.  The Spinosaurid in the Echkar Fm is called Spinosaurid indet and the Carch is a different species than the Kem Kem.  So let's not get ahead of ourselves and make assumptions that are not supported by science.

 

Could they be something other than abelisaurus? Like the supposed deltadromeus or moroccan dromaeosaur?

[Troodon]

8 minutes ago, Fullux said:

Could they be something other than abelisaurus? Like the supposed deltadromeus or moroccan dromaeosaur?

They are not Abelisaurus that a South American dinosaur.  They fit the morphology of a Abelisaurid and teeth in specimen UCPC20 so it's most likely that.   Paleontologists have yet to come out to anoint that Dromaeosaurids are present but the general feeling is that they are.   We are clueless what Deltadromeus teeth look like but are probably more recurved than your teeth.  Just need to wait and see what new discoveries bring.