Dpaul7 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I went shopping for a nice Cystoid (We don't have in my area as far as I know) - Bought a Holocystites scutellatus - When researching the taxonomy, Wikipemedia Commons gives the following: Regnum: Animalia • Phylum: Echinodermata • Subphylum: Blastozoa • Classis: Cystoidea • Ordo: Aristocystitida • Familia: Aristocystitidae • Genus: Holocystites Hall, 1864 Fossilworks gives: Kingdom: Animalia Phylum: Echinodermata Subphylum: †Blastozoa - Sprinkle 1973 Class: †Diploporita Superfamily: †Sphaeronitida Family: †Holocystitidae Genus: †Holocystites So - Is it a CYSTOID or a BLASTOID? Or is science not sure???? I bought another one that Fossilworks DOES classify as a cystoid. Did some reading... seems the fossils from this location are listed as Holocystites and Cystoids. Any insight here? I am trying to build a nice representative collection, so I can start identifying on my own... and try to study when I have the time!!! Dave Ruckser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 As I said via PM (and will say here for posterity’s sake): It is a cystoid, a blastoid would be in the class blastoidea rather than cystoidea. Blastozoa is a subphylum which encompasses them both. For example, humans are in the order Primates and turtles are in the order Testidines, however both are encompassed in the subphylum Vertabrata. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 As I understand it, the 'cystoids' have been split up into several groups and 'cystoidea' is not valid. Blastozoa includes the Class Eocrinoidea (which includes several of the groups once classed as 'cystoids' or 'blastoids', such as the Orders Imbricata, Gogiida, Trachelocrinida, Ascocystitida) and other Classes including Ctenocystoidea, Homostelea, Homoiostelea, Paracinoidea and Diploporita. 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Thanks to you both! I will uses the class Diploporata for my classification - It is interesting how these taxonomies change - Better specimens are discovered, and new discoveries are made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 39 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: As I understand it, the 'cystoids' have been split up into several groups and 'cystoidea' is not valid. Is the Treatise section on Cystoidea due for a revision? Please elaborate with citations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Tidgy's Dad said: As I understand it, the 'cystoids' have been split up into several groups and 'cystoidea' is not valid. Blastozoa includes the Class Eocrinoidea (which includes several of the groups once classed as 'cystoids' or 'blastoids', such as the Orders Imbricata, Gogiida, Trachelocrinida, Ascocystitida) and other Classes including Ctenocystoidea, Homostelea, Homoiostelea, Paracinoidea and Diploporata. Boo taxonomy change, always confusing me didn't see that on the great chain up there. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, WhodamanHD said: As I said via PM (and will say here for posterity’s sake): It is a cystoid, a blastoid would be in the class blastoidea rather than cystoidea. Blastozoa is a subphylum which encompasses them both. For example, humans are in the order Primates and turtles are in the order Testidines, however both are encompassed in the genus Vertabrata. I don't think Vertebrata is a genus... nor is it a class - the classes as I've always understood are Fishes, Amphibians, Reptiles, Birds, Mammals . Is Vertebrata a phylum or a subphylum of Chordata? That I'm not clear on without looking it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Wrangellian said: I don't think Vertebrata is a genus... nor is it a class - the classes as I've always understood are Fishes, Amphibians, Reptiles, Birds, Mammals . Is Vertebrata a phylum or a subphylum of Chordata? That I'm not clear on without looking it up... meant to say subphylum (of chordata). To late for me, My mind checks out after dinner. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Thought it was something like that. After dinner is too early for your mind to check out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: meant to say subphylum (of chordata). To late for me, My mind checks out after dinner. Wait until you reach MY age... it gets worse! lol It's been very informative, folks! I have enjoyed it! And I learned somethign new today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, Wrangellian said: Thought it was something like that. After dinner is too early for your mind to check out! That’s what I keep telling it! You should hear when it checks in 18 minutes ago, Dpaul7 said: Wait until you reach MY age... it gets worse! lol I knew there was light at the end of the tunnel! I patiently await the day I can blame a mind slip on my age “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Evidently, the cystoids are now in the Class: Rhombifera. At least the name Pleurocystites cannot be changed. Here is an excellent ventral and dorsal pair from my collection: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, piranha said: Here is an excellent ventral and dorsal pair from my collection: Those are very nice! Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, piranha said: Is the Treatise section on Cystoidea due for a revision? Please elaborate with citations. I think the Treatise Cystoidea bit was 1967? Yes, it's due for revision. Most of the papers in the last 15 years don't mention 'cystoidea' or 'cystoids' at all, except in inverted commas like "Taphonomy of 'cystoids' (Echinodermata : Diploporata) from the Napoleon quarry of Southeastern Indiana, USA; The Lower Silurian .......... Thomka, J.R. et al 2016. (which has the correct classification on brackets) There is a lot of confusion. The Wiki entry mentioned in the first post four orders traditionally in the Class Cystoidea; Aristocysitida; Asteroblastida; Glyptosphaeritida; Sphaeronitida but they are now classed in the Diploporata, (or three of them) even if you enter Diploporita in Wiki, the three are listed there, contrary to what it says elsewhere. http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5783&context=utk_graddiss is good as it talks about a lot of the other new papers and discusses recent attempts at classification. It also discusses Holocystites and gives it a clearer classification. And https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/3A06423398C407C28EF3E36E0FE18596/S0022336016001426a.pdf/div-class-title-phylogenetic-taxonomy-and-classification-of-the-crinoidea-echinodermata-div.pdf is also interesting as it tries to keep the Edrioasteroids under the Crinozoa banner, contrary to my previous link. I see you've now brought up the Rhombifera, but the groups traditionally listed as Class Cystoidea weren't under this, Rhombifera included only the Dichoporata, not the traditional cystoid shape at all. Though the Rhombifera were included under the old Superclass Cystoidea, I remember with several other groups. That Pleurocystites is a beautiful thing, you lucky chap. 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 recent A view on higher level systematics(Dunne/Edgecombe,2014) NOTE(later edit): What I find interesting* is that there seems to be support for Jefferies's taxon Olfactores(neglected since he posited the group in 1986) *vide Peterson/Eernisse/2016/Org.Div.Evol 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 I just came on to post that article! It is a big help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/16/2018 at 9:42 PM, doushantuo said: recent ... A view on higher level systematics(Dunne/Edgecombe,2014) NOTE(later edit): What I find interesting* is that there seems to be support for Jefferies's taxon Olfactores(neglected since he posited the group in 1986) *vide Peterson/Eernisse/2016/Org.Div.Evol Thanks for this, but it would have been nice if the words at the top of this figure weren't cut off... Ventral what? Dorsal what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 It''s actually Dunn et al et al and the paper is free access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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