ynot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Coco said: Marvelous ! Could be difficult to see difference between dermal denticles and teeth... Coco Thanks Coco! Yes, some denticels look very tooth like. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 8 hours ago, ynot said: I think that I was using a finer screen, have lots of things that are under 0.25 mm in what I have searched. That being said, most of the placoid scales (that I found) should have been "caught" by Your 0.4 mm screen. I posted a placoid scale, 2 years ago, and @PA Fossil Finder added one to the thread. Tony Really great post! Great pictures! Lots of ray dermal denticles. Looks like placoid scales also. For sharks the placoid scales are under 1 mm except for a few species like Echinorhinus (Bramble sharks). 0.25 mm is below what I search. I wish I had the patience but that size is just too time consuming for me and requires that I use my microscope versus my magnifying loupe. However based upon what you are finding in the STH matrix, it looks like it is definitely worth the time. Matrix from most localities won't have much vertebrate stuff that small. I use .4 mm sieves because they pretty much capture all of the shark and ray teeth that I'm interested. Marine Cretaceous matrix especially can have very small shark and ray teeth that a .4 mm sieve is needed to catch. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, MarcoSr said: but that size is just too time consuming for me and requires that I use my microscope versus my magnifying loupe. I use an "optivisor" jewelers headset with a x5 mag for searching the small stuff. 6 minutes ago, MarcoSr said: Really great post! Great pictures! Thank You. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 14 hours ago, ynot said: A couple of rostral denticles... front and back... 14 hours ago, ynot said: The other rostral denticel... Front and back... Tony These specimens are interesting. I'm curious where you got your id from? They do resemble sawfish rostral teeth from the Cretaceous. However I'm not aware of a Miocene sawfish or sawshark that would have rostral teeth/denticles like these. Are you sure they aren't fish teeth? Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 15 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Tony These specimens are interesting. I'm curious where you got your id from? They do resemble sawfish rostral teeth from the Cretaceous. However I'm not aware of a Miocene sawfish or sawshark that would have rostral teeth/denticles like these. Are you sure they aren't fish teeth? Marco Sr. I guessed based on the root shape and that both have 2 carnea (cutting edges). They could be fish teeth, but I would be happier if they were IDed correctly as rostel denticles. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, ynot said: I guessed based on the root shape and that both have 2 carnea (cutting edges). They could be fish teeth, but I would be happier if the were IDed correctly as rostel denticles. Tony I don't have any extant sawfish rostrums, but I do have an extant sawshark rostrum, Pristiophorus cirratus (Longnose Sawshark). Pictures are below. Your specimens do not look like they would be from a sawshark. Maybe someone else can post sawfish pictures like those below.: Rostral teeth. Sawsharks do have very small rostral teeth in addition to the large teeth. However, they are flattened and elongated. The first picture below shows the large rostral teeth. You can see the very small rostral teeth in the second picture.: Ventral tooth (circled in red). Sawsharks also have what are called ventral teeth which are small but they are also flattened and elongated.: Placoid scales: Dorsal side of rostrum Ventral side of rostrum: Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 11 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Your specimens do not look like they would be from a sawshark. Oh well, fish it is. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 10 hours ago, ynot said: Oh well, fish it is. Tony No mater what your two specimens are, they are interesting specimens and you took great pictures of them. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Tony No mater what your two specimens are, they are interesting specimens and you took great pictures of them. Marco Sr. Thank You for all the help. It is much appreciated. What do You think on the given ID for the shark teeth shown? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Fascinating stuff. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Fascinating stuff. I agree! The placoid scales amaze Me. I will be getting pictures of the other things from this matrix soon, stay tuned. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 12 hours ago, ynot said: Thank You for all the help. It is much appreciated. What do You think on the given ID for the shark teeth shown? Tony I'm not sure about the first tooth labeled as Gymnura based upon the views in the two pictures. It could be Mobula. Mobula have lots of variation in their teeth. The second specimen labeled as Gymnura definitely looks like Gymnura. Here is one type of Mobula tooth that looks similar to that first tooth.: The first Scyliorhinus labeled tooth looks like another Triakis tooth to me. Marco Sr. 2 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malone Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Thank you! The amount of effort put into this presentation is truly praise worthy! Also the gift of acuity of sight is amazing. I can't imagine how detailed your vision must be to be able to prep these. Thank you again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Malone said: Thank you! The amount of effort put into this presentation is truly praise worthy! Also the gift of acuity of sight is amazing. I can't imagine how detailed your vision must be to be able to prep these. Thank you again! Thanks. There is no prep on these. On some of the ones that have some matrix left on them I will wet My fingers and roll it around a little to "wash" it off. Does not always work though. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 8 hours ago, ynot said: Thanks. There is no prep on these. On some of the ones that have some matrix left on them I will wet My fingers and roll it around a little to "wash" it off. Does not always work though. Tony I use a jewelry ultrasonic cleaner with water to remove dirt and matrix from my specimens. You can't use it on fragile specimens because it could damage them, but it does a really nice job of cleaning the specimens. If I've used chemicals to break the matrix down it also fully removes the chemicals so I don't need to worry about the chemicals further attacking the teeth. It doesn't always remove all of the STH matrix because that can really be stuck to the specimens but in most cases it removes a good bit of it. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, MarcoSr said: I use a jewelry ultrasonic cleaner with water to remove dirt and matrix from my specimens. Thanks for the tip! Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 This is a great thread. Thanks, Tony for the great reference photos and Marco Sr. for the confirmation IDs. I will be sure to check back here when I get back to my STH matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, old bones said: Thanks, tony for the great reference photos You are welcome Julianna. You do realize these are finds that went through the window screen and are too small for the matrix You have. In the 50 gallons of regular matrix that I went through I got several larger ray denticles (the thorn looking ones) but only found one ostracoderm. If You would like some of this finer matrix PM Me. PS I will be adding to this thread very soon. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Got another chance to play with My microscope today, so here are some more little things found in the super fine matrix. Scale in pictures is millimeters. I only found 3 Cetorhinus sp — Basking shark, which is a very common tooth in the regular micro matrix from STH. Found several Triakis sp - Houndshark teeth. Continued next post... Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Other side of last tooth.... Another one... Need to do some organization of My pictures, please stay tuned. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 A couple more trakis... Maybe an angel shark . Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Heterodontus -- Bullhead shark teeth (only found 2 in this matrix). Side and front view. Second tooth... Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Galeorhinus sp - Tope shark. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Galeorhinus sp - Tope shark. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Another Galeorhinus sp - Tope shark. I have only found 2 of these teeth with the pronounced cusps on both sides of the main blade. The other came out of the regular micro matrix. 3 pictures of same tooth Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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