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Identification of Teeth from Triassic Dinosaurs of New Mexico


Troodon

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Since I'm working on this specimen for my school project, I thought I'd contribute with this :)

5b830f125f4b2_ScreenShot2018-08-26at22_35_08.png.641023fe7f65c71ca98b77f3802ab825.png

Specimen NMMNH P-42353. 

Rhinehart et al.'s "Paleobiology of Coelophysis bauri" indicates that this specimen is from a "larger juvenile or small adult".

Don't ask me about the teeth, tho.. Photo quality makes it kinda difficult to discern them, but I think I spotted a few maxillary teeth :headscratch:

-Christian

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Triassic Ornithischians:

 

The illustration below from Nesbitt paper shows images purported ornithischian dinosaurs and many are sold as being dinosaurian. His re-evaluation based on Irmis et.al study, below, concluded the following:

"Recent discovery of the skull and skeleton of Revueltosaurus callenderi from Arizona shows that it is a pseudosuchian archosaur, not an ornithischian dinosaur. As a result, other purported North American ornithischian teeth cannot be assigned to the Ornithischia and therefore, there are no confirmed North American Triassic ornithischians"

Screenshot_20180828-104728.thumb.jpg.1f6c63d3c49ac0a90710823045e052bb.jpg

Nesbitt paper:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.544.7161%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCvIS2sZDdAhVzIjQIHf08B5gQFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw04KYIpP8ZAuSE7DhpTCa6d&cshid=1535481405009

 

 

Irmis, Nesbitt et. al study reassigned purported ornithischians see table I

Screenshot_20180828-110500.thumb.jpg.5555a47140d433499361bca4946cc28b.jpg

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228492984_Early_ornithischian_dinosaurs_the_Triassic_record

Irmis, R. B., Parker, W. G., Nesbitt, S. J. & Liu, J. 2006. Early or-
nithischian dinosaurs: the Triassic record. Historical Biology. DOI:
10.1080/08912960600719988.

 

Triassic Prosauropods:

 

Nesbitt paper also makes the following statement

"No Triassic material from North America can be assigned to Sauropodomorpha, because none of the purported ‘prosauropod’ material is diagnostic." 

 

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@Troodon This Heckert (2002) paper on Revueltosaurus has some good pictures and info regarding teeth:

 

5b85b1e669e14_ScreenShot2018-08-28at22_34_00.png.4075836510911465668b3b797a545fc5.png

 

 

5b85b220b80d0_ScreenShot2018-08-28at22_35_20.thumb.png.b5e423d3e279177db06ab6cecbc27442.png

 

 

Heckert, A. B. (2002). A revision of the Upper Triassic ornithischian dinosaur Revueltosaurus, with a description of a new species. Upper Triassic Stratigraphy and Paleontology: Bulletin 2121, 253.

 

Found on RG: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268417282_A_revision_of_the_Upper_Triassic_ornithischian_dinosaur_Revueltosaurus_with_a_description_of_a_new_species

 

-Christian

 

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Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy!

 

Q. Where do dinosaurs study?

A. At Khaan Academy!...

 

My ResearchGate profile

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  • 1 year later...

Serrated teeth from the Bull Canyon Fm are often sold as theropod.  Here is a publication, just released, that looks at triassic  archosauriform teeth from Tanzana.  Someday we might see something from New Mexico but for now these publications are of some assistance to show us what not dinosaurian.

 

Screenshot_20191105-072346_Chrome.thumb.jpg.48dd32f0cfd757c4afd94fcde7a85982.jpgScreenshot_20191105-072412_Chrome.thumb.jpg.5ad0c64d47355d4b75251ff8c6eea405.jpg

 

https://peerj.com/articles/7970/

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  • 6 months later...

Hi All,

 

Thought that I would contribute to this by posting a beautiful skull of Coelophysis bauri from the Museum of Northern Arizona. Click on the pic to be able to zoom in and take a look at the teeth. I honestly think that none of my "Coelophysis teeth" are actually from Coelophysis comparing them to the teeth of this specimen.

 

EXRiDpUUYAAnRRa.jpg

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5d738606eab6e_2018-11-1322_54_57-Greenshot-newlogo.png

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Here's a follow up of a closer pic from the skull. A bit blurry but oh well! Followed by a second photo of a CT scan of a Coelophysis from KU's David Burnham!

 

EXhzxJmWAAY8GgE.jpg

EXhx2J_WoAMfOA2.jpg

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Some information on Daemonosaurus chauliodus teeth.

Premaxillary Teeth

Unique premaxillary teeth decrease in size from the first to the third.  Only three premaxillary teeth are present and they lack serrations on the mesial edge and have fine rectangular serrations along the distal edge (seven serrations per mm).

 

Screenshot_20200803-103221_Drive.thumb.jpg.59a2d146606676fc455394041c0d8d3b.jpg

Screenshot_20200803-103131_Drive.thumb.jpg.ee9278961e7795005ddd2a3c46191214.jpg

 

Maxillary Teeth

The distribution of the mesial and distal carinae 
and the morphology of the serrations on the maxillary teeth vary along the length of the maxilla The first preserved maxillary tooth on the left side has serrations restricted to the ventral third of the mesial edge of the crown, whereas serrations are present along the entire distal margin. The third maxillary tooth through the posteriormost tooth have serrations on both the mesial and distal edges of the entire crown, but have differently shaped serrations on the 
mesial and distal edges of the crown. The serrations on the mesial edge are triangular (five per mm), whereas the distal serrations are rectangular and slightly smaller (six per mm). All maxillary teeth have smoothly rounded labial surfaces and lack the longitudinal ridges present on the premaxillary teeth

Screenshot_20200803-105057_Drive.jpg.802452c861bd533d108585a607b9b0b1.jpg

Screenshot_20200803-105122_Drive.jpg.0da2cfc96e463774540e490c5162467c.jpg

 

Dentary Teeth

All that is mentioned is that the size of the teeth gradually decreases posteriorly from the second tooth and these teeth all have recurved tips and mesial and distal carinae with serrations.

Screenshot_20200803-110211_Drive.jpg.571c9409774f65813eacf8f740deb1f4.jpg

 

Paper

The osteology of the early-diverging dinosaur Daemonosaurus chauliodus (Archosauria: Dinosauria) from the Coelophysis Quarry (Triassic: Rhaetian) of New Mexico and its relationships to other early dinosaurs.


Sterling J Nesbitt, Hans-Dieter Sues


Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society
Published: 03 August 2020

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  • 2 months later...

Another tooth that I used to regard as a Coelophysis, but after reading your thread, I am pretty sure it isn't

 

It measures 16mm long in a straight line. Distal serration count is 5.5-6 denticles per mm. Mesial serration count is 5 denticles per mm. I have no idea what to make of it. I don't even know if it's dinosaurian

 

Coelophysis 1.jpg

Coelophysis 2.jpg

Coelophysis 3.jpg

Coelophysis 4.jpg

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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On 10/30/2020 at 7:13 AM, -Andy- said:

Another tooth that I used to regard as a Coelophysis, but after reading your thread, I am pretty sure it isn't

 

Thats my call its not but not sure what to say beyond that.  So many archosaurs around with serrated teeth that it  may fit one of them but it might be dinosaurian.  The serrations lean me toward the former but thats a guess.  So little is published its hard to make a good call.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 30/10/2020 at 10:36 PM, Troodon said:

Thats my call its not but not sure what to say beyond that.  So may archosaurs around with serrated teeth that it  may fit one of them but it might be dinosaurian.  The serrations lean me toward the former but thats a guess.  So little is published its hard to make a good call.  

 

Dr. Andrew B. Heckert just replied. He said it looks like a phytosaur tooth to him, and it's impossible to assign a genus to it

 

Interestingly, regarding this slightly bigger tooth below which is from the same area, he said: That could be a large theropod tooth (e.g., from Gojirasaurus), but is probably a "rauisuchian" tooth, something like Postosuchus

 

The bigger tooth measures roughly 24 mm in a straight line. Distal serrations is roughly 21-23 denticles/5mm on the mid-line and they run to the root of the tooth. Mesial serrations is 25 denticles/5mm on the mid-line; they are offset from the center and they end 3/4 of the way. There is a dimple on the tooth near the mesial edge

Reptile_Postosuchus_1.jpg

Tooth B - Distal 1.jpg

Tooth B - Mesial 1.jpg

Tooth B - 3b.jpg

Tooth B - cross section.jpg

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Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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Not surprised at all but glad he confirmed it thanks for the feedback.   Good source glad he got back with you..  Most of these teeth being sold are just not Dinosaurian but if your aware of it, thats okay.  Phytosaur teeth vary quite a bit with lots of different critters out there why its hard to ID isolated teeth to a genus. 

 

  Postosuchus density is 12/5 mm so your larger tooth is not one.  So coarse not fine denticles.

 

I also don't think its dinosaurian, denticles don't look like theropod.  All the characteristics of Gojirasaurus also do not work. 

A bit like those archosauriform teeth from Tanzania but my guess is Phyto.   Nice tooth however whatever it is.

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6 hours ago, Troodon said:

Not surprised at all but glad he confirmed it thanks for the feedback.   Good source glad he got back with you..  Most of these teeth being sold are just not Dinosaurian but if your aware of it, thats okay.  Phytosaur teeth vary quite a bit with lots of different critters out there why its hard to ID isolated teeth to a genus. 

 

  Postosuchus density is 12/5 mm so your larger tooth is not one.  So coarse not fine denticles.

 

I also don't think its dinosaurian, denticles don't look like theropod.  All the characteristics of Gojirasaurus also do not work. 

A bit like those archosauriform teeth from Tanzania but my guess is Phyto.   Nice tooth however whatever it is.

 

I also didn't think it could be Postosuchus at first due to serration count. When I first showed it to Dr Heckert, I called it an unidentified archosaur tooth. After I gave all that data above, including the serration count, I was surprised when he brought up Postosuchus as a probability.

 

I can only guess that he may have come across Bull Canyon Fm rauisuchian teeth there that falls out of the range of those we see in current publications

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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  • 1 month later...

Saw this on Christophe Hendrickx's twitter and thought it could be useful (quoting Hendrickx): 

 

 

 

Coelophysis bauri (Chinle Fm., NM, USA):

 

"The dentition ... is characterized by fluted teeth in juveniles, procumbent mesial [dentary] and [maxillary] teeth, and some unserrated mesial crowns."

 

"Some mesial teeth have distal denticles. The mesial denticulated carina is straight and typically extends well-above the root in lateral teeth. The external margin of the denticles is convex, and the mesial and often distal denticles are apicobasally subrectangular."

 

"The enamel surface texture is braided, and marginal and transverse undulations appear to be absent on the surface of most crowns. Faint transverse undulations could, however, be observed in a few lateral teeth..."

 

EpyrIXuWwAUo86R.thumb.jpeg.7585d38ef091d0bc57eb24c268f6a182.jpeg

EpyncGTXUAURX5-.thumb.jpeg.7cb30a63e0994398bb32a258494af648.jpeg

EpyqDlZXEAAUucV.thumb.jpeg.2935daa8269723f85ef432f2b2e4d16d.jpeg

EpynitmXEAU9VnH.thumb.jpeg.b1ce1a56348389443c623535f1be91ca.jpeg

EpyrSrQXcAA3vYm.thumb.jpeg.78b7b5322ca0c2b6ec3e19557959ec2e.jpeg

 

There are more photos on his twitter post.

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"Argumentation cannot suffice for the discovery of new work, since the subtlety of Nature is greater many times than the subtlety of argument." - Carl Sagan

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  • 7 months later...

Is it possible to use the pictures of the Coelophysis teeth on here as part of an exhibit at our museum? If so, who would I need to get permission from? 

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27 minutes ago, Notgneiss said:

Is it possible to use the pictures of the Coelophysis teeth on here as part of an exhibit at our museum? If so, who would I need to get permission from? 

Welcome to the Forum. 

 

Get permission or info of who to contact from the poster of the photos that you desire.

 

@ThePhysicist

@Troodon

See also:  http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/83060-identification-of-teeth-from-triassic-dinosaurs-of-new-mexico/

 

Edited by DPS Ammonite

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1 hour ago, Notgneiss said:

Is it possible to use the pictures of the Coelophysis teeth on here as part of an exhibit at our museum? If so, who would I need to get permission from? 

All of the images I used were mostly from publications and those were all cited so those should not be a problem.  They should be cited..   My personal photos can be used in your exhibit.

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