D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Dear Guys, I have collected several interesting bird long bones in the sand dune layers of Varena town, South Lithuania. Judging by the local stratigraphy and history, the sand in varena town is formed in the last glaciation (25- 10 thousand years ago), so there in my bone finds can be some bird genera that do not live in the Baltic Region today. If someone is familiar with ornithology, please take a look and help me to identify bird taxa. Any help will be appreciated! Best Regards Domas At first, I show tibiotarsus fragment of possible big vulture (the largest width in articular part is 2 cm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 The second bone is coracoid of possible not very big Gruiform. The length of bone is 5,25 cm and the width in wider joint is 1,6 cm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 The third bone fragment- wide tarsometatarsal lower end, quite massive to recent lithuanian bird (1,7 cm width in the articular part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 And the upper fragment of tarsometatarsal, it is 2 cm width in the articular part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 @Auspex may be able to help. Nice bones, but I can not help with ID. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 And the last fossil- humerus fragment without articular ends, I think it is hardly identifiable. 5,7 cm length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Dear ynot, Thank you for the comment, I am very waiting for Auspex results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Very interesting. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 You have done your homework! I am sorry that there is nothing much that I can add to your observations. The proximal end of that tarsometatarsus has some distinctive features; comparisons with large gallinaceous species might be worth pursuing. 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarrodB Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I can't help on ID but you have great pics and seem to be well informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Dear Auspex and JarrodB, Thank you very much for the comments. I checked the megapodids and other chicken like birds from Cenozoic and the majority of bones look very similar to Galliformes. But coracoid bone is quite narrow and I would think it rather belongs to Anatidae. One question- could anyone suggest an expert who works on Cenozoic bird bones? Best Regards Domas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If I remember correctly, @MarcoSr once identified a bunch of his bird bones. Or maybe an expert helped him do it. So I think he might be helpful for you, by either giving some direct IDs himself or by maybe giving you the contact of the expert that helped him. Well I just tagged him, so hopefully he will also be of some help. Very nice bones by the way! Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Dear Max-fossils, Thank you very much, I am very waiting for Marco Sr ideas! It is very important to me to know if these bird bones are pleistocene in age for sure, this age can be confirmed only by narrow taxons. I wish some rare species or genera will be confirmed. Best Regards Domas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, D.N.FossilmanLithuania said: Dear Max-fossils, Thank you very much, I am very waiting for Marco Sr ideas! It is very important to me to know if these bird bones are pleistocene in age for sure, this age can be confirmed only by narrow taxons. I wish some rare species or genera will be confirmed. Best Regards Domas I can imagine! One way to tell if the bones are indeed Pleistocene (or older), and not modern, is by doing the flame test. Bring up a small flame, from a match or a lighter, against the fossils. If they start to stink, then it means that the bones are modern. If nothing happens, then they are very likely fossil! Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Thank you Max-fossils, I will try this test! Best Regards Domas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, D.N.FossilmanLithuania said: Thank you Max-fossils, I will try this test! Best Regards Domas Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Max-fossils said: If I remember correctly, @MarcoSr once identified a bunch of his bird bones. Or maybe an expert helped him do it. So I think he might be helpful for you, by either giving some direct IDs himself or by maybe giving you the contact of the expert that helped him. Well I just tagged him, so hopefully he will also be of some help. Very nice bones by the way! Max Unfortunately I don't find many bird bones in the mostly marine faunas that I search so I wouldn't be much help with specific ids. I donate all of these bird bones to different museums who have researchers interested in them and who do all of the identification. If a museum doesn't have a specific researcher interested in your specimens, even if you donate them, it is very unlikely that they will ever be looked at or studied. I've made mistakes in the past with donations and the specimens still have not even been looked at years later. I have seen enough bird bones to agree that your bones pictured are bird and it is definitely worth the effort to find a researcher interested in them. I have found that bird researchers either concentrate on certain time periods like the Eocene or Miocene or on certain families or genera of birds or on certain specific fossil localities. Unfortunately because my bird bones were from the Eocene or Miocene I'm only aware of researchers interested in those time periods. However I often do Google searches to find papers on fossils that are similar to the ones that I'd like researchers to help identify. I then send e-mails with good specimen pictures (your pictures are good specimen pictures) to the authors of the papers inquiring if they can help id the specimens and/or are interested in studying them. Some researchers do not respond but a lot do. I have a multitude of specimens (bird, mammal, reptile, amphibian etc.) that are currently being studied by researchers that I found through these Google searches. Marco Sr. 3 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Dear MarcoSr, Thank you again, the bones are identified as grouse bird remains and probably they are ice age fossils. Best Regards Domas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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