Peat Burns Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Dear TFF members, I am seeking confirmation of the class and order of vertebrate to which these vertebrae belong. This is a ventral view. I am thinking turtle caudal vertebrae. White River Group. Nebraska. Oligocene. Scale in cm/mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Does look reptilian to me, and the odds are there are testudine in that FM. 2 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malone Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 16 hours ago, WhodamanHD said: Does look reptilian to me, and the odds are there are testudine in that FM. What do you mean by FM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Malone said: What do you mean by FM? Short for "formation" (geological formation) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 definitely reptilian and turtles are the only reptile that got that big i the White River. Ok, there is the alligator, but it is incredibly rare, and these are not croc verts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 16 hours ago, WhodamanHD said: Does look reptilian to me, and the odds are there are testudine in that FM. Just now, jpc said: definitely reptilian and turtles are the only reptile that got that big i the White River. Ok, there is the alligator, but it is incredibly rare, and these are not croc verts. Thank you both. Very much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I am rethinking this... I can't tell how big these are, but there is also Glyptosaurus, a fairly large lizard. These verts have nice ball and socket centra like lizards. I am not sure if turtle verts are ball and sockets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 25 minutes ago, jpc said: I am rethinking this... I can't tell how big these are, but there is also Glyptosaurus, a fairly large lizard. These verts have nice ball and socket centra like lizards. I am not sure if turtle verts are ball and sockets. Thank you. I'll look into this. I have some modern turtle vertebrae and Hesperotestudo vertebrae I can compare with. What about Peltosaurus? Is that also a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Peltosaurus is pretty small... I would say regular lizard size, if that means anything. Glyptosaurus is bigger then a chuckwalla. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, jpc said: Peltosaurus is pretty small... I would say regular lizard size, if that means anything. Glyptosaurus is bigger then a chuckwalla. I'll be very pleased if these turn out to be squamate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 @jpc Here is the fossil next to caudal vertebrae of Chelydra serpentina (both in ventral view). If I have my orientation correct on these, the fossil is opisthocoelous, but my understanding is that the centra in turtle vertebrae can vary from procoelous to opistocoelous between species and even depending on position in the spine within species. Unfortunately, I do not have any reference material for monitor and other lizard caudals. Here's another pic of turtle caudals (from base of tail) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 your fossil looks a lot like your chelydra bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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